"My father was a former member of the Khmer Rouge"

JerryCan · Post by **JerryCan** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:53 pm

RickyBobby wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:58 am I guess no one watched the vid?

Frankly I couldn't care less about what this Dr. Peterson has to say, the guy wreaks of an opportunistic basketcase.

The Whisperer · Post by **The Whisperer** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 4:38 pm

JerryCan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:53 pm
RickyBobby wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:58 am I guess no one watched the vid?
Frankly I couldn't care less about what this Dr. Peterson has to say, the guy wreaks of an opportunistic basketcase.

The narrative is always written by the supposed winners who apparently never did anything wrong. It seems to me that most things are total Bullshit. For example, how the USA saved the world. If you look at history, its proven wrong. Sitting back on their backsides and just selling things to the people who were fighting and dying for freedom is inexcusable. Two world wars and the same crap response from the USA. Then after 2 or three years they march in and declare victory in the name of America.
My post has absolutely nothing to do with my friends, I suppose its just politics. What I do disagree with is all the movies depicting how they were so great at winning the wars.

God created the world, everything else is made in China.

RickyBobby · Post by **RickyBobby** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:20 am

AndyKK wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:24 am The point is no one really knows, or wants to know due to the fact they probably won't talk about it. Because why?

I agree, there are many former KR, and many/most of them will have seen horrific things, and some of them as participants.

Perhaps it was a simple 'kill or be killed' scenario. I think in that case, we humans might all end up doing the same things.

The book Peterson references 'ordinary men' is of interest to me because of the aforementioned. Also, because of my grandfather, who fought in WW2 for the Germans. He was injured, and came home early with his nurse, who became his second wife. His behavior was less than stellar from the perspective of my mother, who eventually asked him how he could have done the things he did to his family, and he responded that when they came home they were damaged, and barely human from all they had seen.

So, I think if I was one of these men, If I processed it at all, I may have buried it deep, and don't want it to ever see the light again. I think many of them have tried to reclaim their humanity and will never speak of these events of their past easily, if at all.

But it does make me wonder, when I see men that are 60+ years old, all they saw and did. I cannot imagine how difficult for these people, not much older than me, how they endured; on both sides.

SternAAlbifrons · Post by **SternAAlbifrons** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:46 am

RickyBobby wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:20 am
AndyKK wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:24 am The point is no one really knows, or wants to know due to the fact they probably won't talk about it. Because why?
I agree, there are many former KR, and many/most of them will have seen horrific things,

I think many of them have tried to reclaim their humanity and will never speak of these events of their past easily, if at all.

But it does make me wonder, when I see men that are 60+ years old, all they saw and did. I cannot imagine how difficult for these people, not much older than me, how they endured; on both sides.

Good musings Andy, RB.

My wife was born in 1970 in an area that was ruled by the KR a few years after that.
So she had the old family life, then early KR times, and later during her primary school years the enforced family separations and the horrors.
After that, when she was 11 she went down to the military police station (VN) with her mum one day, to pick up the body of her father who had been beaten to death by the Vietnamese whilst out fishing in the rice paddies the night before.

Cambodians don't talk about those times, as a rule.
Within their own family it is buried deep but not entirely. They have their quiet codes.
Only recently has my wife really started letting it all out to me. Very haltingly at first, everything inside her screamed to not go there.
Now, at the right quiet times, I know the relief and resolution she gets from talking talking talking thru every single thing she has been bottling up all her life.

I also know for sure and certain that the KR trials has enabled many cambodians to start that same resolution process.
Sorry, just my personal observations

RickyBobby · Post by **RickyBobby** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:13 am

SternAAlbifrons wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:46 am
RickyBobby wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:20 am
AndyKK wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:24 am The point is no one really knows, or wants to know due to the fact they probably won't talk about it. Because why?
I agree, there are many former KR, and many/most of them will have seen horrific things,

I think many of them have tried to reclaim their humanity and will never speak of these events of their past easily, if at all.

But it does make me wonder, when I see men that are 60+ years old, all they saw and did. I cannot imagine how difficult for these people, not much older than me, how they endured; on both sides.
Good musings Andy, RB.

My wife was born in 1970 in an area that was ruled by the KR a few years after that.
So she had the old family life, then early KR times, and later during her primary school years the enforced family separations and the horrors.
After that, when she was 11 she went down to the military police station (VN) with her mum one day, to pick up the body of her father who had been beaten to death by the Vietnamese whilst out fishing in the rice paddies the night before.

Cambodians don't talk about those times, as a rule.
Within their own family it is buried deep but not entirely. They have their quiet codes.
Only recently has my wife really started letting it all out to me. Very haltingly at first, everything inside her screamed to not go there.
Now, at the right quiet times, I know the relief and resolution she gets from talking talking talking thru every single thing she has been bottling up all her life.

I also know for sure and certain that the KR trials has enabled many cambodians to start that same resolution process.
Sorry, just my personal observations

Right?

I can only relate to my personal experience. My mother, born in Germany in 1935. I think she was 9 when her city was bombed to pieces. Before that, she was inculcated with propaganda and national pride. Later, they knew real hunger and terror as they ran to the basement whenever they heard the bombers flying near.

She moved west at the age of 20. She felt prejudice and shame. Some real, and some imagined I am sure. She is sensitive to this day of how the villain in the movies is often a German, and otherwise an idiot.

She confessed to me she had trouble to confront the reality to the past and to reconcile it. It was better to suppress and deny. She was old enough to learn and feel so proud of her heritage in her formative years, only to have it smashed and shattered. It must have been soul wrenching for a child.

She told me that an older family member helped her to discuss and confront some of it and to deal with it, in her last visit 'home'.

It's my mama. She's one of the best people I know. Maybe I learned about the concept of Grace from her. She told me:

"God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble"

I know, I need the grace of others, even when I do not deserve it, and that's why, whenever possible, I try to extend that to others. It was recently someone here posted "Never judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes." That is humble good advice.

SternAAlbifrons · Post by **SternAAlbifrons** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:44 am

RickyBobby wrote
"Never judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes."

Thanks RB.
I want to scream that every time I hear that particular expat crew who are always spouting "oh ain't cambodians really stupid".
Not sure if it is ignorance, callousness or racism/cultural superiority complex.
What else could it be??

RickyBobby · Post by **RickyBobby** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:25 am

Anthony's Weiner wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:50 am What did your mother's father do during the war? Was he a NAZI? Do you think your mother's shame of the atrocities your Grandfather facilitated the root of her denial and suppression? Do you feel that it in any way has affected you? ie sugar coating Nazi atrocities or being a holocaust denier?

Remember you have already confessed to me he was a Nazi RB. Arbeit macht frei , perhaps a little work on yourself will rid you of the crippling guilt you carry around.

I know you have your mind made up. Further I think you are a good man. I think If I was smarter, I would just not reply. But, alas, I am not that smart.

I also think that you deserve my reply, rather than being ignored.

I am not a holocaust denier, I am also a natural skeptic and believe that history and news gets reported with bias and that it also gets changed over time. This is not specific in any regard to the Holocaust, but in general.

I suppose I am drawn to conspiracy theories. That doesn't mean I believe them, but I like to hear them, and consider what is truth.

If hoping to find truth without giving blind faith to everything I hear makes me a bad person, so be it. Then I accept that label.

Emotion often betrays logical discourse. These are emotionally charged topics. Its easy to either misrepresent our message, or equally to misinterpret it, from the standpoint of a point blank analysis, or worse, because people are not even trying or wanting to find the good of the message or messenger.

My point, which is now burned with fire so you cannot go back and check (which was fair play, and a good decision, so we need not dredge it all up again here) was that often when people ask good questions, they get no answers. I believe it is OK to ask hard questions, and let the facts stand on their own merit. If there's an answer, it can be told, those questions can be answered and settled.

To be clear, my point was to say, why not answer questions, and as a believer of free speech, they should be encouraged. That is not hate speech, unless the person asking the questions has an agenda and ulterior motives and is indeed hateful.

I think the more I try to explain, the more problems I may cause, and I do not have that intention. I do not wish to debate this further.

But, to answer the rest of your questions and close off this exchange.

My grandfather was stationed mostly in Oslo to the best of my knowledge. He was an airplane mechanic in the air-force and also a tool and die maker. I know he supported the Nazi party. I have always assumed that was not rare. I also do not know if his political persuasion changed over time. Unfortunately, I never really knew him, and he died when I was 24. (he was born in 1915. I know nothing specific of anything he did, but he also took some bullets in his knees at a very young age and was sent home. I do not believe he committed anything atrocious himself, or was carrying a gun or shooting at people, from the ground or the sky. Nothing I have ever heard about anyhow.

My mothers guilt came not from her father, but from her ancestry and from her place of birth, which she carried, and I was not aware of it till more recently when she told me. It was not crippling, she focused on her family, and did a stellar job as a mother of 6 children and the wife of my father. She was well respected, carried herself well, and was and is well liked by all.

I have no guilt, and certainly not crippling guilt as you may try to label me with, its not going to stick. That's over the top Anthony, and I do not see the purpose of your hyperbole. I do not share hers, and I am certainly not responsible for my Grandfather, and have no need to make excuses for him, or the Nazi's.

That is all. Do with it what you wish. I'm not going to engage here any further. I did answer you, out of respect to you, rather than ignore you.

SternAAlbifrons · Post by **SternAAlbifrons** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:30 am

If anybody gets the impression from the threadline in Anthony's Weiner post above that I am partaking in the nasty part of this discussion; I am not.

Anthony's Weiner · Post by **Anthony's Weiner** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:44 am

SternAAlbifrons wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:30 am If anybody gets the impression from the threadline in Anthony's Weiner post above that I am partaking in the nasty part of this discussion; I am not.

I apologize for not deleting your name from the quotes. You have nothing to do with this I wholeheartedly agree.

Ravensnest · Post by **Ravensnest** » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:47 am

RickyBobby wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:25 am
Anthony's Weiner wrote: ↑Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:50 am What did your mother's father do during the war? Was he a NAZI? Do you think your mother's shame of the atrocities your Grandfather facilitated the root of her denial and suppression? Do you feel that it in any way has affected you? ie sugar coating Nazi atrocities or being a holocaust denier?

Remember you have already confessed to me he was a Nazi RB. Arbeit macht frei , perhaps a little work on yourself will rid you of the crippling guilt you carry around.
I know you have your mind made up. Further I think you are a good man. I think If I was smarter, I would just not reply. But, alas, I am not that smart.

I also think that you deserve my reply, rather than being ignored.

I am not a holocaust denier, I am also a natural skeptic and believe that history and news gets reported with bias and that it also gets changed over time. This is not specific in any regard to the Holocaust, but in general.

I suppose I am drawn to conspiracy theories. That doesn't mean I believe them, but I like to hear them, and consider what is truth.

If hoping to find truth without giving blind faith to everything I hear makes me a bad person, so be it. Then I accept that label.

Emotion often betrays logical discourse. These are emotionally charged topics. Its easy to either misrepresent our message, or equally to misinterpret it, from the standpoint of a point blank analysis, or worse, because people are not even trying or wanting to find the good of the message or messenger.

My point, which is now burned with fire so you cannot go back and check (which was fair play, and a good decision, so we need not dredge it all up again here) was that often when people ask good questions, they get no answers. I believe it is OK to ask hard questions, and let the facts stand on their own merit. If there's an answer, it can be told, those questions can be answered and settled.

To be clear, my point was to say, why not answer questions, and as a believer of free speech, they should be encouraged. That is not hate speech, unless the person asking the questions has an agenda and ulterior motives and is indeed hateful.

I think the more I try to explain, the more problems I may cause, and I do not have that intention. I do not wish to debate this further.

But, to answer the rest of your questions and close off this exchange.

My grandfather was stationed mostly in Oslo to the best of my knowledge. He was an airplane mechanic in the air-force and also a tool and die maker. I know he supported the Nazi party. I have always assumed that was not rare. I also do not know if his political persuasion changed over time. Unfortunately, I never really knew him, and he died when I was 24. (he was born in 1915. I know nothing specific of anything he did, but he also took some bullets in his knees at a very young age and was sent home. I do not believe he committed anything atrocious himself, or was carrying a gun or shooting at people, from the ground or the sky. Nothing I have ever heard about anyhow.

My mothers guilt came not from her father, but from her ancestry and from her place of birth, which she carried, and I was not aware of it till more recently when she told me. It was not crippling, she focused on her family, and did a stellar job as a mother of 6 children and the wife of my father. She was well respected, carried herself well, and was and is well liked by all.

I have no guilt, and certainly not crippling guilt as you may try to label me with, its not going to stick. That's over the top Anthony, and I do not see the purpose of your hyperbole. I do not share hers, and I am certainly not responsible for my Grandfather, and have no need to make excuses for him, or the Nazi's.

That is all. Do with it what you wish. I'm not going to engage here any further. I did answer you, out of respect to you, rather than ignore you.

Curious here, Do you believe the Holocaust happened and that roughly 6 million Jews died?

Let me ask you this, do you believe the Khmer Rouge and all they did is true from the pictures, stories from survivors, etc etc, is true?

"My father was a former member of the Khmer Rouge"

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