It's a surefire fact that a lot of expats really like Cambodia, and that itself is a major 'staying factor'. But a lot of it's coolness relates to it's quirky fucked up'ness.

Get it all clean and westernized, and it'll just be another Thailand with a darker skinned population! Good for Cambodians perhaps, but surely not expats?

CaliforniaGuy wrote: Thanks for your thoughtful post. Maybe I am being too pessimistic, it does take time to build up a country from utter destruction, and I do see progress on the highways. Thanks for the info on the ports, didn't realize that. On the other hand as you point out the downtown area, "failed projects" and traffic jams. Maybe there are some plans on how to solve the traffic problems, I just am not aware of them. Obviously all of the new downtown building will require an vastly updated downtown street system, along with the supporting highways through and around the city. All of this along with a population educated on how to drive. Anyone have any information on what is planned in this area?

I'm not sure there is a serious plan of any sort in this regard. (Yes, there are plans, but not realistic.) In a way I think the problem here has less to do with a failure to improve in-city infrastructure, than with completely haphazard in-city development (allowing the willynilly construction of huge building based on little more than where they could sell the land and get investors) and a lack of a proper urban development plan.

CaliforniaGuy wrote:My other concern is the state of industry and export. There has been a lot of high-tech industries moving into neighboring Viet Nam over the past decade, partly to offset geopolitical concerns, but also because of rising labor rates in China. I remember maybe 8 years or so ago I attended a business conference in HCMC and had a chance to talk to the guy heading up the new billion dollar Intel manufacturing plant there. Clearly they saw that country as a future hub of technological industry, and the Vietnamese government officials were there too, making it clear they were in it for the long haul. I don't see any of that in Cambodia. Hopefully someone can point out where I am wrong.

Part of what prevents a lack of development of a high-tech industry is the poor state of the education system and a poorly educated worker base. OTOH, the emphasis in Cambodia seems more focused on the garment industry, and that area has seen significant and steady positive growth in recent years, though the ultimate effects of demands for increased wages and opposition rabble rousing have yet to be fully determined.

I have heard of a couple of more technical manufacturing facilities moving into Cambodia... including a diamond cutting facility and a place doing wire wraps for high end electric motors. There aren't 10000 of them like there are garment factories, so they're not making huge news... but they're there. One of the things really holding manufacturing back is the corruption. Companies need a legal surety of costs before they set up a factory... its quite difficult to get that in Cambodia with every official in each step of the process wanting a handout.

Tiffany has a diamond polishing factory in PP- the decision is largely motivated by corporate responsibility/marketing considerations.

But no doubt- higher tech industries are gearing up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/09/busin ... d=all&_r=0

And really that's where we'll see education increases here. rl66 and I discussed this over on 440 way back when (around the min wage protest time if i recall). About how garment industries are a manufacturing gateway:

Shipping:
because they can ship such high volume and high profit items they can afford higher shipping (export and supply import both) costs. so they set up in places and end up paying inflated shipping because they're not part of standard shipping lanes. eventually, this creates a shipping lane to that location once volume reaches a high enough point, and then it becomes cost effective for other industries with items that don't pack as densely to come in and manufacture there as well.

Infrastructure:
They set pretty much the rock bottom conditions people in a country will work in. They create shitty housing systems/etc for their employees to keep them "on campus". They get the country looking at the money to be made from industrializing. All while only having to set up a minimum of equipment/structure/etc to do so. Roads to transport their goods become more common, and whole industrial SEZ areas spring up. Power plants are upgraded to support the new cash cow industry resulting in more powered areas. Local companies dedicated to the support of manufacturing form, in a bid to cash in on some of the industry as well. Overall even at shitty wages they ARE better wages than most of the workers would have made otherwise... else why would they have taken the job? Increased wages create a little consumerism (and of course the inflation that goes with it) which leads to more shops/etc in the areas around them. Overall infrastructure surges.

Education:
While the woman sewing shirts in a factory for piecemeal won't likely better herself, she's earning more than she was. Especially since she's fine sharing a tiny apartment with 10 other women so she can save her money. My wife's mom, for example, saved up a TON of money working in the garment industry. She didn't change her own diet habits and paid $10 a month in rent to one of the cousins to live with them while she was in PP working. But she took that money and used it to send my wife to PP for the last of her high school education, and then (with my wife working and contributing as well) to the university after. The result is the lovely lady many on here have met, who is quite a bit smarter than your average rice farmer. The same goes for many of those working in the garment sector, not bettering themselves... but educating the next generation a little better because they can afford to do so. That generation will be much better equipped to work in higher tech industries, which will pay more, and forward the cycle further again.

OrangeDragon wrote:And really that's where we'll see education increases here. rl66 and I discussed this over on 440 way back when (around the min wage protest time if i recall). About how garment industries are a manufacturing gateway:

Shipping:
because they can ship such high volume and high profit items they can afford higher shipping (export and supply import both) costs. so they set up in places and end up paying inflated shipping because they're not part of standard shipping lanes. eventually, this creates a shipping lane to that location once volume reaches a high enough point, and then it becomes cost effective for other industries with items that don't pack as densely to come in and manufacture there as well.

Infrastructure:
They set pretty much the rock bottom conditions people in a country will work in. They create shitty housing systems/etc for their employees to keep them "on campus". They get the country looking at the money to be made from industrializing. All while only having to set up a minimum of equipment/structure/etc to do so. Roads to transport their goods become more common, and whole industrial SEZ areas spring up. Power plants are upgraded to support the new cash cow industry resulting in more powered areas. Local companies dedicated to the support of manufacturing form, in a bid to cash in on some of the industry as well. Overall even at shitty wages they ARE better wages than most of the workers would have made otherwise... else why would they have taken the job? Increased wages create a little consumerism (and of course the inflation that goes with it) which leads to more shops/etc in the areas around them. Overall infrastructure surges.

Education:
While the woman sewing shirts in a factory for piecemeal won't likely better herself, she's earning more than she was. Especially since she's fine sharing a tiny apartment with 10 other women so she can save her money. My wife's mom, for example, saved up a TON of money working in the garment industry. She didn't change her own diet habits and paid $10 a month in rent to one of the cousins to live with them while she was in PP working. But she took that money and used it to send my wife to PP for the last of her high school education, and then (with my wife working and contributing as well) to the university after. The result is the lovely lady many on here have met, who is quite a bit smarter than your average rice farmer. The same goes for many of those working in the garment sector, not bettering themselves... but educating the next generation a little better because they can afford to do so. That generation will be much better equipped to work in higher tech industries, which will pay more, and forward the cycle further again.

After father was shot dead, my wife's mother did the same. Still is helping put the younger brother and sister through school. We both help and give some money. Brother just graduated and got picked up by Smart to do IT work. Your post hit home.

OrangeDragon and Sir_Quality_U_Feel very uplifting stories. Thanks for posting. My wonderful Khmer wife was also the beneficiary of her family, especially her mother's contributions to her well being and education. Even when they had to struggle to find enough to eat, they made sure their daughter had the best educational opportunities they could afford. Opportunities that they could never have living under the Khmer Rouge. I am so thankful we now have the opportunity to help her mom and her brother's kid. What is money for if not to try to do some good in this world. Every day I realize I am so blessed.

It is refreshing to read real, genuinely written posts like these. All to often they are kidnapped by those only wanting to waive their pseudo academic flags.

Alas, a quick cross analysis of what they, generally write, shows a weak attempt at para phrasing the top few results of a Google search. 'Wiki-Warriors'

My own work with a company, that manufactured in China, saw them move everything to Vietnam for the same reasons.

Cambodia will be far more attractive, if and when it manages to build the appropriate infrastructure.

Following the thread on the other forum, around the start of this year, I informally chatted with them about this same area, they identified the same barriers and ultimately the same future development.

Also, common to both accounts was the obvious lack of need to add smoke and mirrors to obscure a lack of knowledge by adding contrast or compare references to Stalin and Marx, Petty and Covey or Butter and Margarine. This is a trait often seen with Wiki-Warriors.

They did however, highlight the need for those currently manning the commercial bridgehead to adapt themselves. 'Straightening of Ties and Polishing of Shoes' will be required, as the evolution of manufacturing in the Kingdom, will make it a more attractive place for those who currently see it as the Wild West. This will bring its own challenges to the Old Guard.

Remembering that, in addition to the Cambodian feeder companies, opportunities will develop for ex-pat feeder companies.

Potentially, interesting times ahead.

Interesting points in todays PP Post:

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/c ... ree-report

Seems like the expats are far removed from the above issues. It certainly 'pays', being an expat in Cambodia. I feel for the poor locals who must view their country in a completely different light.

snookie BRO wrote:Interesting points in todays PP Post:

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/c ... ree-report

Seems like the expats are far removed from the above issues. It certainly 'pays', being an expat in Cambodia. I feel for the poor locals who must view their country in a completely different light.

Kind of amusing that you would cite a report written by Americans who have likely never been to Cambodia, working for an American think tank in America known for its pro-American political lean as evidence that expats living and working in Cambodia, often with local spouses and families, are "far removed" from the feelings and attitudes of locals in Cambodia.

Was your use of the phrase "far removed" intentional irony or just a happy accident?