Cambodians return home

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Satiated Parrot
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Re: Cambodians return home

Post by Satiated Parrot » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:05 am

Wow. 2.2 million? Way more than what I thought. I've always felt that a true measure of "step 1" economic success is whether you have a lot of people from neighbouring countries coming to your country to work.

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Re: Cambodians return home

Post by phuketrichard » Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:48 pm

BANGKOK, June 17 -- Jirasuk Sugandhajati, permanent secretary to the Thai Ministry of Labour, said that tomorrow he would visit Chon Buri province with Pravit Khiengpol, director-general of the Department of Employment, to discuss ways to better communication between migrant workers, eastern labour officials and provincial governors.

The movement responds to the rumour that Thai authorities are rounding up alien workers. Due to the rumor, over 100,00 Cambodian workers have left Thailand.

Mr Jirasuk also said that he ordered ministry staff to make leaflets in the Khmer, Myanmar and Lao languages to tell migrant workers to ignore the rumour.

He said that the Ministry of Labour had no special policy to arrest migrant workers and that he hoped that his move would prevent labor shortage among Thai operators.

Mr Pravit said that there were two solutions. The first one is to tell the Cambodian workers who arrive for day-shift work and return home in the evening to continue to work in Thai farms as usual.

The second solution will handle migrant workers in the construction sector which is also being affected. Under the solution, such workers must be imported legally and they must carry passports and have visas.

Later this month Thai officials will offer one-stop services for the legal import of labor at three border checkpoints--in Aranyaprathet district of Sa Kaeo, Chanthaburi and Trat provinces. (MCOT online news)
-- TNA 2014-06-17

To be legal in Thailand an apples to Burmese, Laotians & Cambodians

They first must have an employer,
the employer than goes to the labor dept and requests a "quota" to hire a migrant; as a maid, gas station attended, construction worker, cleaner, cook etc etc.
One the labor dept issues the quota the potential employee takes that to the immigration at the border ( one's for Cambodia mentioned above)
the employee is than is issued a wp an temp Passport

they then need a medical clearance.
with these papers they travel to any immigration office in Thailand and receive a L-A migrant visa valid for 2 years which can be renewed once for another 2 years.

Quite simple, total time about 2 weeks, total cost including medical about 5,000 baht
this also gives the worker a medical card same as thai's have

so in reality there is NO REASON to be illegal!!
In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely. HST
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Re: Cambodians return home

Post by LTO » Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:07 pm

So, two questions:

Is the Thai junta targeting Cambodians in Thailand?
If so, why are they targeting Cambodians, now in particular?

Not much interested in the junta's answers to these question, but real answers.
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Re: Cambodians return home

Post by phuketrichard » Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:49 pm

no
they aren't, why would they? Thailand needs the workers as much as the workers need to work.
The Junta ONLY wants clean up those working illegally, an as i said above its not hard to get legal!
By working legally they will not be forced to pay protection money to the police or immigration, cheated. scammed by their own people or trafficked,

win win

Cambodians believe unfounded rumors.
thats all
In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely. HST
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Re: Cambodians return home

Post by LTO » Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:23 pm

phuketrichard wrote:no
they aren't, why would they?
How do you know?
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Re: Cambodians return home

Post by OrangeDragon » Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:36 pm

phuketrichard wrote:no
they aren't, why would they? Thailand needs the workers as much as the workers need to work.
The Junta ONLY wants clean up those working illegally, an as i said above its not hard to get legal!
By working legally they will not be forced to pay protection money to the police or immigration, cheated. scammed by their own people or trafficked,

win win

Cambodians believe unfounded rumors.
thats all
I'll repeat what I posted on the FB conversation about this...

Because the Junta, as some entity, hasn't necessarily ordered the expulsion of legal workers doesn't prevent the agents of the junta themselves who they have selected to enforce the expulsion of illegal worker from targeting Khmer workers of BOTH types out of personal bias or nationalism. To just dismiss the reports as "Cambodians believe unfounded rumors" is too much the easy road for anyone wanting to unquestioningly believe in the power of the Junta as a force for good and needed change while ignoring the dangers of a system with no failsafe system of oversight.

To answer "why would they?" in this context of the individuals... hundreds of years of racism and looking down on them would be the easy answer. But if we even take that out, and go to the context of the Junta as a whole we can see that doing this would create a large opening in job markets for the Thais themselves and when looking for an approval rating having made a bunch of jobs for the unemployed generally secures one.

If America, for example, were to pass a law preventing jobs being exported overseas for cheap labor the American people as a whole would greatly improve... even though it would be a stupid populist move that would actually negatively impact the country in the sense of long term business development and economics.
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Re: Cambodians return home

Post by LTO » Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:48 pm

Interesting story in BP yesterday:
Thirty-eight undocumented Cambodian workers were rounded up at Hua Hin train station on Sunday evening as they were waiting for a free train service to flee the country.  

The group was arrested by a combined team of soldiers and railway police officers after none of them could present work permits or official employment documents. Pol Lt Col said the migrants wanted to return to Cambodia for fear of arrest... 

The NCPO denies it has any policy to evict Cambodian migrants and has rejected accusations of abuse. It suggested many of the migrants are simply leaving to farm rice in their home country. 

The railway police recorded their personal details and sent them to investigators at Hua Hin police station for prosecution. The detainees will be escorted to Singkhon immigration control in Muang district on Monday pending deportation proceedings...

NCPO spokeswoman said on Friday the junta had no policy to crack down on Cambodian workers... 
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Re: Cambodians return home

Post by Cowshed Cowboy » Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:25 pm

OrangeDragon wrote:
phuketrichard wrote:no
they aren't, why would they? Thailand needs the workers as much as the workers need to work.
The Junta ONLY wants clean up those working illegally, an as i said above its not hard to get legal!
By working legally they will not be forced to pay protection money to the police or immigration, cheated. scammed by their own people or trafficked,

win win

Cambodians believe unfounded rumors.
thats all
I'll repeat what I posted on the FB conversation about this...

Because the Junta, as some entity, hasn't necessarily ordered the expulsion of legal workers doesn't prevent the agents of the junta themselves who they have selected to enforce the expulsion of illegal worker from targeting Khmer workers of BOTH types out of personal bias or nationalism. To just dismiss the reports as "Cambodians believe unfounded rumors" is too much the easy road for anyone wanting to unquestioningly believe in the power of the Junta as a force for good and needed change while ignoring the dangers of a system with no failsafe system of oversight.

To answer "why would they?" in this context of the individuals... hundreds of years of racism and looking down on them would be the easy answer. But if we even take that out, and go to the context of the Junta as a whole we can see that doing this would create a large opening in job markets for the Thais themselves and when looking for an approval rating having made a bunch of jobs for the unemployed generally secures one.

If America, for example, were to pass a law preventing jobs being exported overseas for cheap labor the American people as a whole would greatly improve... even though it would be a stupid populist move that would actually negatively impact the country in the sense of long term business development and economics.
One of the reasons they are here in the first place is because there is a labour shortage, in areas such as construction for example, so I think them leaving will open up opportunities in a job market that cannot be filled locally.
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Re: Cambodians return home

Post by phuketrichard » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:31 pm

funny how in the late 70's early 80' more the a million Cambodians sought refuge in Thailand an although the camps weren't the best place to live ( i visited a few in 79-80) the alternative was much worse.

With unemployment very low in Thailand those thai's that want to work, do, the Migrant workers take the jobs that the Thai's just don't want to do for whatever reason.

seems strange
The group was arrested by a combined team of soldiers and railway police officers after none of them could present work permits or official employment documents. Pol Lt Col said the migrants wanted to return to Cambodia for fear of arrest...

...detainees will be escorted to Singkhon immigration control in Muang district on Monday pending deportation proceedings...
They were on the way out of the country, why waste the manpower,time and resources to arrest them ONLY to then deport them?

I repeat what i said, the Junta wants to clear things up an only have document/legal migrant workers in Thailand, Give it a few months and they will all return with a more secure future .

Even Reuters backs up what I said:
The Thai economy, Southeast Asia's second-largest, is heavily dependent on migrant workers, mostly from Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia. Migrants cross porous borders to perform jobs most Thais are unwilling to do in labour-intensive sectors.

"This will definitely impact the construction industry, particularly along the eastern seaboard of Thailand, a key economic region. It will also affect agriculture as some fruit orchards rely on Cambodian workers," Vallop Vitanakorn, Vice- Chairman of the Federation of Thai Industries, told Reuters.

"But I believe once they have their work documents in order most of them will return, perhaps within a month or two."

"This will be a good thing for the country because we can put in order the workforce and make it legal," he said. "We don't want foreign workers to be exploited by their employers."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/ ... NX20140617
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Re: Cambodians return home

Post by Cowshed Cowboy » Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:22 pm

phuketrichard wrote: I repeat what i said, the Junta wants to clear things up an only have document/legal migrant workers in Thailand, Give it a few months and they will all return with a more secure future .

Even Reuters backs up what I said:
The Thai economy, Southeast Asia's second-largest, is heavily dependent on migrant workers, mostly from Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia. Migrants cross porous borders to perform jobs most Thais are unwilling to do in labour-intensive sectors.

"This will definitely impact the construction industry, particularly along the eastern seaboard of Thailand, a key economic region. It will also affect agriculture as some fruit orchards rely on Cambodian workers," Vallop Vitanakorn, Vice- Chairman of the Federation of Thai Industries, told Reuters.

"But I believe once they have their work documents in order most of them will return, perhaps within a month or two."

"This will be a good thing for the country because we can put in order the workforce and make it legal," he said. "We don't want foreign workers to be exploited by their employers."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/ ... NX20140617
That is how I see it from an economic standpoint, to do otherwise would be short sighted in the extreme. From a Cambodian worker viewpoint it has to be positive if it gives them more legal worker rights. On the flip side should Thailand slip into recession and the job market actually contract to the point where there is a surplus of local labour available, being able to control the flow of migrant workers from a position of strength makes sense.

I'm not sure how much legality will be required when the free flow of labour under Asean comes into effect.
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