Is calling the Cambodian genocide a genocide correct?

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bong.kuit
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Re: Is calling the Cambodian genocide a genocide correct?

Post by bong.kuit » Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:28 am

"auto-genocide" (see f.e. ciorcari 2004) is sometimes used, emphasizing the "implosive" difference of the kr regime but still referring to the definition in the convention. the exclusion of political groups there, only "national, ethnical, racial or religious" groups are mentioned, was a result of political pressure from socialist states iirc.

imo genocide is the right term to use.
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Re: Is calling the Cambodian genocide a genocide correct?

Post by Flexnez » Sun Aug 03, 2014 12:51 am

JBTrain wrote: Wrong. Most were deported first, so those who remained, not a large population, were mostly those with Khmer spouses. All or substantially all were later killed, including children. The Vietnamese population of Cambodia in late 1978 was zero. The genocide case to be made is indeed is against the Vietnamese, it's clear in both word and deed. The Chams have a case but I believe their persecution was less consistent and if there were specific directives from the top I don't recall that, I'd have to go back to the DCC papers.
The persecution of Vietnamese was started by the Lon Nol regime, when the vast majority of the Vietnamese were expelled. After the KR takeover in 1975, only an estimated 20,000 Vietnamese remained in Cambodia, and as you correctly indicates, by End of 78 that number had dropped to zero
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Re: Is calling the Cambodian genocide a genocide correct?

Post by JBTrain » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:00 am

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:Where exactly do you get the idea that the above provinces are "Vietnamese dominance"?

Still, JBT's assertion that Vietnamese population in 1978 was zero is slightly laughable depending on how he defines "Vietnamese".
Feel free to prove me wrong. No scholar who has written on the subject disputes the contention. Obviously in theory there may have been Vietnamese who could pass for Khmer and survived but I don't know of them. FC this subject has come up many many times before and the answer is always the same, genocide has a technical meaning and that's what I'm speaking to, I'm not asserting that the murder of Vietnamese is somehow morally more repugnant than murder of Khmers under the KR just that that mass murder doesn't fit the technical meaning of genocide.
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Re: Is calling the Cambodian genocide a genocide correct?

Post by flying chicken » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:01 am

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:Where exactly do you get the idea that the above provinces are "Vietnamese dominance"?
I really hope what you writes. It is not my THOUGHT, they are facts. You live in PP right? Why dont you take abit of time in your surroundings, say across the Chba Ompov bride for example. If that doesnt convince you, go look around SHV, Kampot, and Siem Reap! And by dominant I mean the locals are losing their territories.
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Re: Is calling the Cambodian genocide a genocide correct?

Post by flying chicken » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:16 am

JBTrain wrote:
Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:Where exactly do you get the idea that the above provinces are "Vietnamese dominance"?

Still, JBT's assertion that Vietnamese population in 1978 was zero is slightly laughable depending on how he defines "Vietnamese".
FC this subject has come up many many times before and the answer is always the same, genocide has a technical meaning and that's what I'm speaking to, I'm not asserting that the murder of Vietnamese is somehow morally more repugnant than murder of Khmers under the KR just that that mass murder doesn't fit the technical meaning of genocide.
Dont put words in my mouth, no matter how you want to spin it. I indirectly said many time over the years online; but I will spell it it out this time! I speak fluent Khmer, Vietnamese and English.

No one is denying Khmers during the Khmer Rouge era are killing their own people. You on the other hand is trying to protect your online reputation; I already say what I wanted to say ( and I can back it up)....furthermore, I really eager to hear yall profound understandings about the VN stuff...ears!
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Re: Is calling the Cambodian genocide a genocide correct?

Post by JBTrain » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:23 am

flying chicken wrote:
JBTrain wrote:
Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:Where exactly do you get the idea that the above provinces are "Vietnamese dominance"?

Still, JBT's assertion that Vietnamese population in 1978 was zero is slightly laughable depending on how he defines "Vietnamese".
FC this subject has come up many many times before and the answer is always the same, genocide has a technical meaning and that's what I'm speaking to, I'm not asserting that the murder of Vietnamese is somehow morally more repugnant than murder of Khmers under the KR just that that mass murder doesn't fit the technical meaning of genocide.
Dont put words in my mouth, no matter how you want to spin it. I indirectly said many time over the years online; but I will spell it it out this time! I speak fluent Khmer, Vietnamese and English.

No one is denying Khmers during the Khmer Rouge era are killing their own people. You on the other hand is trying to protect your online reputation; I already say what I wanted to say ( and I can back it up)....further, I really eager to hear yall profound understandings about the VN stuff...ears!
If you don't understand the meaning of genocide, which you clearly don't even after 600 attempts, then I have to dispute your claim to English fluency. As for 3/4 of Siem Reap being Viet I can only say that's an interesting and unique observation. I guess getting a dynamite bowl of pho is no problem then.
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Re: Is calling the Cambodian genocide a genocide correct?

Post by flying chicken » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:30 am

I already anticipated your bs response. What is your definition of genocide in that era, JB?
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Re: Is calling the Cambodian genocide a genocide correct?

Post by flying chicken » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:34 am

I honestly not trying to be a dick or prick or anything. I genuinely want to have better understanding. But.....................
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Re: Is calling the Cambodian genocide a genocide correct?

Post by kiwiincambodia » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:55 am

flying chicken wrote:I honestly not trying to be a dick or prick But.....................
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Re: Is calling the Cambodian genocide a genocide correct?

Post by Soi Dog » Sun Aug 03, 2014 2:56 am

flying chicken wrote:You are dam right I am angry at the Vietnamese. I live here and speak the native language. Phnom Phem, Kampot, Sihanoville, and now 3/4 of Siem Reap are Vietnamese dominance. The only province left in Cambodia Battambong. Should I worry? Yes I do...on behalf of 10 million Khmers.

So Soi Dog?
I was interested in your quick leap from being understandingly emotional about the terrible loss of almost your entire family during the KR era, but then immediately went into anti-Vietnamese feelings...as if the two are related. From what I can gather about that period, the Vietnamese probably saved several million more Cambodians from dying at the hands of other Cambodians (and the KR regime's appallingly ludacris economic and social policies). I admit that I don't know the history of what, if any, harm the Vietnamese may have responsible for as a result of their invasion, as viewed by the Cambodians...which is why I asked.
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