nightmare.believer wrote:SHV is a rotten drunk who has not yet hit bottom. And the wealthier will not go there for any length of time as the locals are just too nasty.

The wealthier who? Khmers? They flock there.

Hotdigr wrote:You aren't seeing it for what it is right now and where it is heading soon. Neither was I until very recently. Lets put it this way - there are a LOT more families and high class expats in town then what us westerners realise and that is the fact NOW, TODAY. Target it and you have a chance. I personally think its going to take another couple of years, but establish yourself and get a reputation now and things are going to explode soon. You will notice I said EXPATS. They live here now and don't give a shit about road conditions between here and anywhere else. If they need to go elsewhere, they park their Hummers up and fly.

I personally think its going to take another couple of years, but establish yourself and get a reputation now and things are going to explode soon.

Keep waiting buddy...aaaaaannnnnnnnnnyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyydddddddddaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy Noooowwww.....soooooooooonnnnnn

You have any idea how many people keep saying that?. Judging by the development, stalling funds, lack of development and just really not that great of beaches..sorry to break hearts but the beaches are fucking garbage. These people you speak of with the money...why do you think they stay at in snookie? Maybe to get away and try to isolate themselves?

It's all hype. This country will stick to being backpackers land cause its cheap. Not to mention if had money I would kick Cambodia in the Nuts and go to Thailand. And so would these big rollers.

I don't see how a rather newly arrived barang is going to get a share of the growing SHV tourist market...because it is actually multiple, separate tourist markets, each rather closed off. Why would the Russians go to your place and not a Russian owned place? The Chinese, Koreans and Japanese stick to their own even more so. Can any guesthouse or restaurant cater to all demographics with any success?

And worst of all. if you did somehow manage to become successful in business down there...would you be allowed to keep it? Entire blocks of small-time businesses get bulldozed to make room for well-connected development projects, with no recourse for the owners. Hotdigr seems to think he and he alone sees the potential and "transitioning" of Sihanoukville. We will see if he falls into the same financial traps many, many others have before him. Can anyone think of a reasonably successful barang-owned business down there that has thrived long term...not just survived (and I mean financially successful, not the "laid back lifestyle choice, barely getting by in the low season" crap)?

The next 6 months will be very interesting. If Interstate Resorts and Hotels (owned by the Government of China) starts their one billion dollar project on Koh Pous Island it could be the start of some changes. Almost no moneyed tourist with a couple weeks off a year will fly into PP and take a bus on Hwy #4 (The Death Highway To Hell), to Snooky. They will though fly into PP, set at the airport for a couple hours and take a flight to Snooky.

Vietnamese Airlines and the powers that be can only block other airlines flying in Cambodia (and Snooky) for so long. Philippine Air (Cambodia Air) has airplanes setting on the ground in Phil. ready to start flying in Cambo. The Chinese are getting a middle class with more disposable income. Why do you think Nagaworld has an Airbus jet flying charters to China/PP, and are buying 3 more? Snooky, to my knowledge is the only city in Southeast Asia that you can walk out the backdoor of a hotel/casino onto a white sand beach and this hasn't gone unnoticed by the government of China. (They can't invade the country, but they can buy it and screw their enemy Vietnam.) The Chinese already built the big powerplant by Snook, are suppose to start a major Iron ore project with a 250 mile railroad ending in Koh Kong and an oil refinery on the coast.

If a Singapore national wants to walk into and gamble at the overpriced Marina Bay Casino in Singapore it costs over $100. That same person could get off work on fri afternoon, take the MRT to the airport, fly to Snooky, gamble and lay on the beach, fly back on Sun night and take the MRT to their apartment. It would be just over an hour flight. (Tiger air PP/Singapore return is under $200, so what would Snooky/Singapore be?) People in Singapore have a lot of disposable income.

The places that get bulldozed are usually squatters, or people who just aren't allowed to renew their lease by the landowners, now. Haven't heard of any recent cases of land grabbing and there are loads of hard titled land options.

I can see where hotdigr is coming from with the russians. I hadn't really considered them before because of what soi dog suggested, the assumption the sort of stick to their own, but it makes sense also that they would go to any nice place with a good reputation. And a somewhat steady year round flow of russian expats paying higher prices for fancy atmosphere and food is 100x better than a rush of $3 backpackers crying about 75 cent beers for 5 months a year. It will make more profits and survive longer.

If it does well, then others will likely see it and try to replicate it... plausibly meaning less of the backpacker places and more of the high end places. The more high end places, the more families and friends the customers who spend money tell their friends about, meaning the more of those types coming... which then means more high end places and less backpacker places again.

It would be a long transition, and I'm sure there would still be a backpacker scene as long as the costs of things don't drive prices up to a point where those types of businesses can't function, but it's not hard to imagine a majority shift. Especially if they get airport really working.

If you want to see what the arrival of large numbers of Russians is liable to result in, check out what has happened in North Goa. It is not a pretty picture.

A few of you seem to be missing a couple of points.
1/ The Russians (rich and otherwise) are already in Snooky. They are far and away the largest expat community here.
2/ They will ,and do, frequent business that offer what they require.
3/ If you haven't noticed the fact that S/ville is actually changing day by day, you either haven't been here for a long time or are blind. The changes in just the last 6 months are immense.
4/ At no stage did I imply that I am the only person down here that has recognised the potential of tapping this market. Others are already doing it successfully.
5/ Why would the Russians come into my business Soi? Well the fact it is Russian owned is a bit of a dead giveaway I reckon. Keep up mate!
6/ If you go into The Square, Golden Lion Plaza, up to the Hill or the downtown "girlie" bars, you will see that, that particular market is pretty much dead already.
7/ Casino's. Think about it, we are one of the few places in SEA that allows legalised gambling in Casino's. Casino's = moneyed up travellers.

FWIW I agree with hotdigr.

My first business in SHV over a decade ago was a whoremongers bar which then had wall to wall freelancers, located in town. There were few bars in town apart from Victory Hill (before Mssr Rudolph opened the first of his 5 girlie bars) which was then a backpacker haven, there was practically nothing at occhheteal and serendipity. That business has died.

My next business/development was a bar complex aimed (when devised in 2005) as beer bars to be packed with girls for the whoremonger market. During the extended construction period of the Plaza the raids on the brothels took place and the girl scene was destroyed. Over that period the number of expats had increased and most were not sexpats, By the time the bars opened few had any girls, but there were still not too many bars near the beach so they did ok as just normal bars, many attracting a decent expat following.

Now I am finalising the purchase of an established business. It will be repositioned and marketed primarily/solely at the family market both expats and tourists.

I too have seen what hotdigr has seen. I agree with his comments about CPN more reflecting the PP of today than K440. YEs K440 accurately reflected the majority of expats in Cambodia in 2003 and for a while afterwards, but now it does not. In 2003, the Soyra centre was the tallest building in PP there were no apartment blocks, no office towers, traffic was a breeze. Who do you think is filling all these apartment complexes??

The future of SHV is not the same as the past neither too is the make up and mindset and needs of the majority of the visitors.

Hotdigr wrote: 7/ Casino's. Think about it, we are one of the few places in SEA that allows legalised gambling in Casino's. Casino's = moneyed up travellers.

This I disagree on. The casino's area really pretty lifeless here, and what travel customers they do have spend all their time and money in the casino they flew into the country to visit. When they start arranging whole planes full of traveling gamblers like Nagaworld and the places in Macau do, then I'll buy it.