We are guests in this country

This is a part of our Cambodia forums to chat about anything Cambodia-related. This discussion forum is at the top of our site because it's usually the busiest part of the expat community chatter with random topics on just about everything, including expat life, Khmer politics, Cambodian blogs we have or have come across, or whatever else our members want to discuss. Whether you're an expatriate, tourist, Cambodian or random traveler just passing through South East Asia, you are welcome to talk about anything or start new topics yourselves.
User avatar
JBTrain
Expatriate
Posts: 362
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 3:44 pm
Reputation: 4
Location: Phnom Penh
Contact:

Re: We are guests in this country

Post by JBTrain »

LTO wrote:
Joon wrote:As a Cambodian, I don't consider foreign expats, residents and businesspeople as "guests." I think they are part of the society and as such they have certain rights and certain duties. They have the freedom to complaint, to love, to describe, to analyze, to study, etc. everything Cambodia.

Where the limitation of foreigners in Cambodia lies, imho, is that no matter how long they have lived here, know the country and its people, have family bonds with Cambodians, they are not part of the Nation (unless they apply for Khmer citizenship).

So as such, I consider that it would be out of place for foreigners to claim that they know what is best for this country and to proselytize about what the destiny of this Nation should be.
I mostly agree*. I wrote about this before, took a similar position, and was accused of being a CPP supporter for it.

*Couple of small afterthoughts:

Even if the foreigner applies for and receives Cambodian citizenship, he will still always be an outsider (unless he's Chinese), and considered and treated as such by the local population. The best that a white can hope for in Khmer society, even with a Cambodian passport, is to be considered a respectable, understanding, well-integrated foreigner...almost Chinese. Part of surviving as an expat is understanding and accepting that.

And, as has been pointed out to me before, there is some reasonable question about who is more 'part of the Nation', the foreigner who's lived here for years, has family/business investment and the intention to stay or the Khmer who may never have been here and has no intention of living here.)
Having said far more than my share on the issue of the Khmer view of citizenship I'll but offer up another reference on the subject which I found after I last wrote about it.

"Challenging Khmer citizenship : minorities, the state, and the international community in Cambodia"

http://opus.kobv.de/ubp/volltexte/2014/7035/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The paper points out that Cambodian citizenship is seen in strictly racial/ethnic terms, nothing to do with history, customs, language, thus does a child born in Long Beach to a Khmer mother born in a Thai camp get Cambodian citizenship/Khmer nationality (and in theory can vote when of age) , while... Well you know the other side of the story by now. The study here goes to some lengths to explain the Khmer logic of this being necessary to ensure the survival of the race and nation, Tiger, crocodile etc . The author concludes the nation/state might be better off with a more accommodating approach .
Last edited by JBTrain on Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:04 pm, edited 8 times in total.
Using Tapatalk
OrangeDragon
Site Admin
Posts: 4193
Joined: Fri May 02, 2014 8:05 pm
Reputation: 16
United States of America

Re: We are guests in this country

Post by OrangeDragon »

LTO wrote:I apologize for posting a link to my blog here. I realize that is kind of crass. But I wrote on this a couple of years ago and got some interesting responses:

Is it right for foreigners to join protests in Cambodia?
No apology needed, feel free to do so whenever it fits. We're not picky about stuff like that.
giblet
Expatriate
Posts: 424
Joined: Mon May 12, 2014 7:01 pm
Reputation: 3

Re: We are guests in this country

Post by giblet »

Good point. In most (all?) of the countries that we come from, an immigrant can gain citizenship after a certain number of years and participate in the political process. It's not the same here.
horace
Expatriate
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 12:34 pm
Reputation: 0
Great Britain

Re: We are guests in this country

Post by horace »

I never voted in the UK( 28 years there and 18 here)and wouldn't bother here either.
It's their country , and their rules is what has kept me half sane all these years and if I started thinking that it was my country and my/our rules then i would probably top myself.
Tim Linkinwater
Expatriate
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed May 14, 2014 10:42 pm
Reputation: 14

Re: We are guests in this country

Post by Tim Linkinwater »

horace wrote:I never voted in the UK( 28 years there and 18 here)and wouldn't bother here either.
It's their country , and their rules is what has kept me half sane all these years and if I started thinking that it was my country and my/our rules then i would probably top myself.
Couple of years missing?
horace
Expatriate
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu May 15, 2014 12:34 pm
Reputation: 0
Great Britain

Re: We are guests in this country

Post by horace »

Travelling around India would take up a couple and 3 years in The Caribbean would account for that I think.
User avatar
Hotdigr
Expatriate
Posts: 1182
Joined: Tue May 13, 2014 12:22 pm
Reputation: 180

Re: We are guests in this country

Post by Hotdigr »

I think my comment on another thread may have started this discussion and its a discussion I welcome. I some times write out of passion and don't always express myself as I mean to, so please bear with me!
Its not that I don't think we have a right to an opinion, its more that I think many of us have very vested reasons for our opinion and our opinion tends to revolve around our own personal interests ie - not necessarily what is best for the country, but what is best for us. Even if we deceive ourselves into believing otherwise.
For example, I had an argument recently with a G/H owner in regards to the flying boats that were buzzing around Sihanoukville this last high season. She was very vocal in her opposition to them.They would eventually hurt or kill someone in her opinion and she wanted them, at the very least, highly regulated as they would be in the UK. When I asked her what she would think if the flying boats owner then demanded that she comply to the UK's health and safety standards in her restaurants kitchen and comply to the UK's responsible service of alcohol rules, her response was that basically if that happened she would not be able to make a living and would close her business and move elsewhere.And that the lack of such regulations were actually what was so good about starting a business in Cambodia.
Anyone see where this is going?
I asked her if she had ever heard of the story of Pandora's Box. Basically if you open the box, ALL the evils of the world come flying out, not just the ones you want to come out. Her response was to walk off in a huff.
I just think we have to be very careful that when we come here ( or any new country) that we don't try to impose our beliefs and systems on the indigent population, because it suits US, irregardless of whether it is really what is needed or wanted by the people whose home it
actually is.
To clarify one thing before I sign off. I work around 10-12 hrs a day in a job that is not internet related and really only spend one or at the most, two short sessions a day on the net. If it takes me a day or so to respond to your responses of my comments, its NOT because I don't want to debate the issue ( as I have just been accused of in a PM ) its because I'm to bloody busy either working or sleeping or living the LARGE portion of my life that doesn't include on line debate. I will try to respond ( if I think your comment is worth responding to) ASAP
Cheers people, I'm off to bed, I wish a goodnight and sweetdreams to one and all ;)
User avatar
StroppyChops
The Missionary Man
Posts: 10598
Joined: Tue May 06, 2014 11:24 am
Reputation: 1029
Australia

Re: We are guests in this country

Post by StroppyChops »

FreeSocrates! wrote:I don't think posting a link to your own blog (or even own business, etc) on a forum that you are an active member of the community is at all crass. This is the Internet, it should be totally natural to do so and to be allowed to do so!
Hear, hear. A participating member should be encouraged to do so.
Bodge: This ain't Kansas, and the neighbours ate Toto!
EdinWigan
Expatriate
Posts: 910
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 6:13 am
Reputation: 1
Great Britain

Re: We are guests in this country

Post by EdinWigan »

StroppyChops wrote:
FreeSocrates! wrote:I don't think posting a link to your own blog (or even own business, etc) on a forum that you are an active member of the community is at all crass. This is the Internet, it should be totally natural to do so and to be allowed to do so!
Hear, hear. A participating member should be encouraged to do so.

but I do think that it was nice of LTO to offer an apology, as it was nice of OD and GM to not accept it and to let LTO know it is OK to do that. I think it is just another indication of the nice harmonious way this forum is run.

Disclaimer: The above comment is not just a generalisation comment but a comment based on my thoughts. I reserve and will exercise the right to tell any pretentious wanker that they are wrong, if I think they are. However in this case, I just think it is all nice and harmonious. Just for the record: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=twatty" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, I am not
Remember your Karma helps a Wet Child In Wigan !
User avatar
Bitte_Kein_Lexus
Expatriate
Posts: 3593
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 7:32 pm
Reputation: 759

Re: We are guests in this country

Post by Bitte_Kein_Lexus »

giblet wrote:Good point. In most (all?) of the countries that we come from, an immigrant can gain citizenship after a certain number of years and participate in the political process. It's not the same here.
Germany still has a very similar (seemingly identical? I'm using my phone so don't like clicking links) "citizenship by blood" policy. They've changed it a bit, but you could live in Germany for years, speak fluent German and so forth, but wouldn't be able to become a citizen, nor would your German-born children. Getting citizenship was/is damn hard. Until very recently, it didn't go by time spent there like in other countries.
Ex Bitteeinbit/LexusSchmexus
Post Reply Previous topicNext topic
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post