Ripe Before Ripen (Tom Mon Srokeal=ទុំមុនស្រគ្រៀល)

Have questions or resources regarding Khmer Culture? This forum is all about the Kingdom of Cambodia's culture. Khmer language, Cambodian weddings, French influence, Cambodian architecture, Cambodian politics, Khmer customs, etc? This is the place. Living in Cambodia can cause you to experience a whole new level of culture shock, so feel free to talk about all things related to the Khmer people, and their traditions. And if you want something in Khmer script translated into English, you will probably find what you need.
Samouth
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Ripe Before Ripen (Tom Mon Srokeal=ទុំមុនស្រគ្រៀល)

Post by Samouth »

As far as i remember Little salary has already introduced this idiom to you guy, Khmer Language Lovers. She mentioned it once on the comment section, but i am not sure if she has already explained the meaning of this interesting idiom.

If you ask any Cambodian especially women, amongst 10 people, at least nine of them know the meaning of this idiom. I bet, almost everyone had been told by their parents countless time about this idiom. This is a really important idiom and older Cambodians always use it from time to time to educate and discipline their son and daughter, but focus more on daughter.

Figuratively it refers to having sex or experienced in any sexual activities before marriage. In Cambodia society, maybe the previous society having sex before marriage is taboo. It is considered as a bad practice. Everyone is encouraged to be abstinence until they get marriage, both men and women.

Again in Cambodia society, Woman is represented by white paper and Man is represented by gold. The explanation that i have been told and heard many time for this comparison is that white paper is really easy to be stained meaning as a woman she has to be act and behave properly and one small mistake she might make or misbehave will completely ruin her own and family reputation. Almost every women might have been told that the only valuable thing she owns and she should take care until she gets marriage is her virginity. Being virgin until getting married is what will make people to respect her and her family especially by her future husband, opposed to that Cambodia society seemed to value man more than woman when it comes to this matter, as a man represented by gold, so making one or two mistakes is not a big deal. Cambodian believed that gold even though it was set on heat and melted, but it is still gold and can always turn into the original or previous state.

However for these days things have changed and not many Cambodians stick on the principle of that idiom especially those who are living in the city and getting to know more about the world. Valentine Day is the proof that younger Cambodians are not really into those old fashion practices and no many people would care about that idiom. Interestingly Cambodia celebrated Valentine Day in a complete, whole different and unique way from the west. Valentine Day is the day that most younger couples Cambodian would chill out, give each other presents and go out together and finally end up getting laid. Valentine Day is the most dangerous day of the year in Cambodia mentioned by a few well-known press and newspapers.

For instance
1. Washingtonpost
The country where Valentine’s Day is the most dangerous day of the year

Image

Cambodia can’t get enough of Valentine’s Day. There are many reasons for this, both cultural as well as linguistic. For starters, Cambodians can be melodramatic when it comes to matters of the heart. Photo ops, like this one, aren’t uncommon. And then there’s the syntax. Valentine’s Day hints at a very important Khmer word: songsar.

It’s often loosely translated as “sweetheart.” Or sometimes “valentine.” But those don’t really get at the complexities of the word. A better translation would be something along the lines of “someone I think I’m going to marry” or “someone I want to marry.” And therein lies the problem. Because when some Cambodians think of Valentine’s Day, they think of that songsar, and expect they’re going to have sex with them. Whether it’s consensual or not, research suggests.
2. The Phnom Penh Post
Valentine's Day, by the numbers

Image

New research based on extensive interviews with young Cambodian reveals that, for many, what has become known as ‘loving day’ has become simply a catalyst for sex

New research on young Cambodian attitudes towards Valentine's Day and sexual relationships has found that more than half the interviewees questioned were happy to engage in sexual intercourse. In fact, the research shows that many middleclass Cambodians are using Valentine's Day not to celebrate their love but as a catalyst for sex.

The new study, titled "Young People Talking About Valentine's Day in Phnom Penh, 2008", was part of a body of work conducted by independent researcher Tong Soprach.

Tong Soprach, who has a master's degree in public health from the University of Cambodia, conducted in-depth interviews with young Cambodians between the ages of 15 and 24 in an attempt to find out whether they get involved in sexual relationships on Valentine's Day.

The research took the form of a qualitative study with 16 extended interviews and a quantitative study of 458 people conducted over the two weeks prior to Valentine's Day in 2008.

The study questioned youths on two occasions either side of Valentine's Day and found that 61.2 percent of respondents considered Valentine's Day special, but that most knew little about the origins of the day itself. Most youths recognised the day as foreign, with several respondents renaming the occasion "loving day".
Last edited by Samouth on Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
បើសិនធ្វើចេះ ចេះឲ្យគេកោត បើសិនធ្វើឆោត ឆោតឲ្យគេអាណិត។

If you know a lot, know enough to make them respect you, if you are stupid, be stupid enough so they can pity you.
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Re: Ripen Before Ripe (Tom Mon Srokeal=ទុំមុនស្រគ្រៀល)

Post by Anchor Moy »

Sorry Samouth, but I think it is very sad that you kids only have one day a year when you think you can make love.
And Valentine's Day was more or less invented to sell greeting cards :facepalm:


Sorry about hijacking your thread, but " Valentines day" = :crazy: IMO.
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Re: Ripen Before Ripe (Tom Mon Srokeal=ទុំមុនស្រគ្រៀល)

Post by Samouth »

Anchor Moy wrote:Sorry Samouth, but I think it is very sad that you kids only have one day a year when you think you can make love.
And Valentine's Day was more or less invented to sell greeting cards :facepalm:


Sorry about hijacking your thread, but " Valentines day" = :crazy: IMO.
The factor that led to this belief was the translation matter. We translated it as Bun Songsa which suggested that Valentine Day is the day to celebration with your partner. Now people tried to call it Bun ney sekkday srolang,
បើសិនធ្វើចេះ ចេះឲ្យគេកោត បើសិនធ្វើឆោត ឆោតឲ្យគេអាណិត។

If you know a lot, know enough to make them respect you, if you are stupid, be stupid enough so they can pity you.
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Re: Ripe Before Ripen (Tom Mon Srokeal=ទុំមុនស្រគ្រៀល)

Post by Jamie_Lambo »

Image
:tophat: Mean Dtuk Mean Trei, Mean Loy Mean Srey
Punchy McShortstacks School of Hard Knocks :x
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Re: Ripe Before Ripen (Tom Mon Srokeal=ទុំមុនស្រគ្រៀល)

Post by Jamie_Lambo »

Great post btw Samouth!!
:tophat: Mean Dtuk Mean Trei, Mean Loy Mean Srey
Punchy McShortstacks School of Hard Knocks :x
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Re: Ripe Before Ripen (Tom Mon Srokeal=ទុំមុនស្រគ្រៀល)

Post by Anchor Moy »

Jamie_Lambo wrote:Image
I didn't even know what "kikilu" means : I am so untrendy.

So thanks a lot Cambodia Daily - I totally swiped the article, but it's just brilliant. :bow:
(Please don't sue me.)
https://www.cambodiadaily.com/archives/ ... ant-61209/
A Phnom Penh municipal education official said Wednesday that principals and teachers across the city were struggling to contain the “kikilu” phenomenon that has swept the country.

The term, which can be translated to “howling dog,” has in re­cent months appeared in a plethora of comedy sketches, songs and ads. But as principals have cottoned on to a less savory interpretation, schools have been battling to keep the word in check.

“The word is not good in its meaning, it means inviting one another to have sex,” said Im Hea, director of the education department’s primary schools office. “Most primary schools in Phnom Penh have warned the students against using that word, along with other kinds of bad words.”

Popularized by the performer Peakmi, the term’s vague meaning adds to its comedic effect. “Kiki” is a playful name for a dog, while “lu” means “to howl,” while the reason for the dog’s howl is left up to interpretation.

News website Thmey Thmey on May 5 published an article titled “The True Meaning of ‘Kiki Lu’ Is as Hard to Find as the MH370 Airplane,” and noted the term’s growing popularity.

“Some people say that it can refer to a dog that fell into a drain pipe, while others affirm it refers to the moan a woman makes while having sex,” the article reads.

Meas Chhorporn, principal of the Preah Norodom Primary School, said he has banned the word multiple times, but its use has snowballed—even among the school’s youngest students.

“The students use that word without knowing what they are saying,” he said. “Even preschool students use it; sometimes when they see a dog crossing.”

Most recently, teachers have announced that they will lower students’ grades if they catch them saying “kikilu,” a tactic that has managed to decrease use of the word, said Mr. Chhorporn.

Despite the harsh punishment, however, some students say they will not abandon the beloved term.

“I’m still using the word after a warning from the principal and teacher,” said Kimlong, 12...
By Hay Pisey | June 12, 2014
And thank you Hay.
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Re: Ripe Before Ripen (Tom Mon Srokeal=ទុំមុនស្រគ្រៀល)

Post by Jamie_Lambo »

haha yeah at phnom penh night market you can get T-shirts that say "what does the kiki lu??" (what does the fox say?) lol
KiKi lu means to howl like a dog but is cross referenced as to the noise a woman makes when having sex, most people just use the word as a playful word for having sex or just sex,

you may have heard this song before??



or i may have just hung around with khmers too long lol

its also sung in this well known song at 0:40seconds...



:hattip:
:tophat: Mean Dtuk Mean Trei, Mean Loy Mean Srey
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Re: Ripe Before Ripen (Tom Mon Srokeal=ទុំមុនស្រគ្រៀល)

Post by Looking for that job »

Samouth , I would say this would make more sense if phrased in English as Plucked before Ripe.
What do others think?
The next question is were where you plucked before ripe?
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Re: Ripe Before Ripen (Tom Mon Srokeal=ទុំមុនស្រគ្រៀល)

Post by Anchor Moy »

Ok, I remember this kikilu stuff now.
(Feb was a long time ago. :oops: )
Also remember that I thought all the fuss was over the top, but some strange ideas can take hold in Cambodia.
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Re: Ripe Before Ripen (Tom Mon Srokeal=ទុំមុនស្រគ្រៀល)

Post by prahkeitouj »

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កុំស្លាប់ដូចពស់ កុំរស់ដូចកង្កែប
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