wackyjacky wrote:There's no good science on this and I doubt there ever will be. Like most Chinese medicine, it's not in practitioners interest to do a proper study. The NIH said the same and called the very best studies "inconclusive". If such chafing fixes all the ailments that it's claimed to, than everything I know about how the body functions could also be wrong. IMO this is right up there with Rhino horn & Bear gallbladder as a great example of the power of placebo .

No good science! Ok critique these findings systematically and show me a peer reviewed paper that refutes these findings

Gua sha’s immune and anti-inflammatory effect: heme oxygenase-1

Providers familiar with gua sha know that it can reduce a fever and alter the course of an acute infectious illness, as well as reduce inflammatory symptoms in chronic illness. A group at Harvard used bioluminescent imaging with a mouse, and showed that gua sha upregulates gene expression for an enzyme that is an anti-oxidant and cytoprotectant, heme oxygenase-1 (HO-1), at multiple internal organ sites immediately after treatment and over a period of days following gua sha treatment [4].

HO-1 and its catalysates (biliverdin, bilirubin and carbon monoxide (CO)) exhibit not only anti-oxidative but also anti-inflammatory effects [5]. For example, augmentation of HO-1 expression attenuates allergic inflammation. HO-1 plays a protective role in allergic disease in part by inhibiting Th2 cell-specific chemokines [5]. This work by Kwong’s group is the first to show an immediate and sustained immune response from a traditional East Asian modality that has direct relevance in the healing of ‘internal organ’ and inflammatory problems.

It is also known that HO-1 regulates cell cycle and anti-smooth muscle hyperplasia, providing protection in many disease models, such as asthma, organ transplant rejection, inflammatory bowel disease and experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis, even though the immune pathological mechanisms of these diseases are dissimilar [5]. http://www.pacificcollege.edu/acupunctu ... a-sha.html

I taught evidence based medicine to medical practitioners in Australia for around 20 years and would be interested in your peer reviewed counter evidence

I have had this done to me once when i had a fever and I did feel better shortly after. I'm generally pretty skeptical about things like this, but it worked and it wasn't placebo because I was pretty skeptical going into it. It could be coincidence though, as I do tend to recover from illnesses pretty quickly.

wackyjacky wrote: IMO this is right up there with Rhino horn & Bear gallbladder as a great example of the power of placebo .

well, coining might make you look stupid, but at least you are not participating in the extinction of rare species or causing harm to others.

Seriously now, I strongly believe in the power of the placebo; things that work even when I know that there is absolutely no scientific basis. I suppose that means that the mind has more power over the body than we want to admit.

So let's talk about chiropractors......

this is a very good documentry i watched the other month, and explains that we have next to no actual conscious control over our body, and that all our conscious though has already had to go through our subconscious and our subconscious only drip feeds us the important information, then when you think youre making a decision about something, your mind has already decided what its going to do, we are in effect completely running on auto pilot lol enjoy the ride lol

I used to Koah Kshal but I stop doing for many years. It is hard to stop do it. If we always Koah Kshal when we're sick, we will feel not get better if we don't do it even we take medicine. It hurts and our skin look burn. We Can't wear sexy clothes.

prahkeitouj wrote:It hurts and our skin look burn. We Can't wear sexy clothes.

That's the main reason I no longer koah kshal.

StroppyChops wrote:

prahkeitouj wrote:It hurts and our skin look burn. We Can't wear sexy clothes.

That's the main reason I no longer koah kshal.

StroppyChops wrote:

prahkeitouj wrote:It hurts and our skin look burn. We Can't wear sexy clothes.

That's the main reason I no longer koah kshal.

You want to wear sexy clothes?

I have used kup chawl occasionally over the years, somewhat grudgingly but not with some seeming successes, which is enough.

I recall the first time it was done to me 20 something years ago. I was new to Cambodia and working in Kampong Som. Was having trouble with a reoccurring back problem, something that comes and goes, but this time was hanging on. I had been to the doc a couple of times, but nothing was really helping. My maid kept urging me to try kup chawl, but I said 'no' as I was a disbeliever. Finally after a few weeks of suffering I relented. I figured, at the very worst, nothing would happen, I'd be no worse off. So I let the maid do the scraping, which that first time I did not find particularly pleasant. After 3+ weeks of pain, the next day I was feeling a bit better and in 2-3 days I was almost 100%. After the kup chawl I got better. But of course temporal correlation does not necessarily equate to a causal relationship. Maybe I was going to get better anyway. Maybe it was the 'placebo effect'. Maybe... Nevertheless, I got better after and that was good enough for me. Didn't necessarily make me a believer, but I still use it on occasion, in part because of this correlation. And I still sometimes, maybe even often feel better after. I’ve come to see it as something of a pleasant experience now, like a therapeutic massage, a bitter tea or a burning plaster, part of the ritual of sickness and healing, or at least a signal that something is being done.

I have heard various explanations of the supposed mechanism of action. Practitioners have told me it has to do with bringing a balance to the 'winds' in the body, others have added that the balance is between hot and cold winds. (I've also seen the hot/cold theory reflected in many of the traditional medical practices surrounding birth and post-natal care.) I have also heard more scientifically inclined types speculate that if it has any effect perhaps it causes the release of endorphins which kills pain, or that it stimulates blood flow to the affected area thereby hastening healing. Interesting idea, but wouldn't necessarily account for the range of uses. For example, my wife, who swears by it for relief of period related pain and discomfort. In the end I don't really care that much why it seems to work sometimes. A scientific explanation would be interesting in a fun facts sort of way, though I would probably still like the traditional way of explaining it better - the winds.