FFS - not even consensus on the alphabet?

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StroppyChops
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Re: FFS - not even consensus on the alphabet?

Post by StroppyChops »

FreeSocrates! wrote:My teacher is alright.

He basically asks me what words I want to use and teaches them to me. And we focus purely on speaking. Since day one he's encouraged me to use my own "Phonetic System" (ie Write the word down how I hear it). At different times I tried to learn different phonetic systems but realised it's much easier if I follow his advice.

I basically use him to practice pronunciation (what part of the mouth/body/tongue the world is coming from) and sentence building. I make more progress if I spend time at home doing memorization of words.

I'm not that interested in writing/reading Khmer.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think they have a very rich literary tradition, I think they are much more social, so it makes sense to learn the speaking part to me.
Ours had recently taken to 45 minutes of formal learning, and then 15 of "so, what do you want to say?" which is working better for us.
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Re: FFS - not even consensus on the alphabet?

Post by Joon »

StroppyChops wrote:
Jacobincambodia wrote:
FreeSocrates! wrote:
StroppyChops wrote: By cross compiling three different sources I get this:
Image
Looking at the transliteration, it doesn't appear accurate to me?
Any specific letters, Jacob, or on general? There were a couple of translit systems available, I didn't put a whole lot of science into selecting this one as I use IPA
Personally, I had transliterated as follow when learning, for my own understanding:

kor - khor - kô - khô - gnô
chor - chhor - chô - chhô - nyô
dor - thor - dô - thô - nor
tor - thor - tô - thô - nô
bor - phor - pô - phô - mô
yô - rô - lô - vô - sor
hor - lor - or
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StroppyChops
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Re: FFS - not even consensus on the alphabet?

Post by StroppyChops »

Joon wrote:Personally, I had transliterated as follow when learning, for my own understanding:

kor - khor - kô - khô - gnô
chor - chhor - chô - chhô - nyô
dor - thor - dô - thô - nor
tor - thor - tô - thô - nô
bor - phor - pô - phô - mô
yô - rô - lô - vô - sor
hor - lor - or
Thanks - makes sense and my production actually closer matches your transliteration than what I've written on the whiteboard image.

In the highlighted line, is pô closer to bô?
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Re: FFS - not even consensus on the alphabet?

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Also, can we have some discussion on whether it's wô or vô? Our tutor is adamant that it's wô but I've seen more than one source that says vô. I hear a /v/ fricative in spoken form but cannot see one in written form, unless this is it.
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Re: FFS - not even consensus on the alphabet?

Post by Jacobincambodia »

StroppyChops wrote:
Jacobincambodia wrote:
FreeSocrates! wrote:
StroppyChops wrote: By cross compiling three different sources I get this:
Image
0Njtjb20vZC8xNC8wNi8zMC9vcmlnaW5hbC91cmU2eTdlaCYjNDY7anBn[/img]

This is the way my teacher teaches me the sounds.

He said it sounds the most musical (abcdefghijklmnop is a song after all!)...
Looking at the transliteration, it doesn't appear accurate to me?
Any specific letters, Jacob, or on general? There were a couple of translit systems available, I didn't put a whole lot of science into selecting this one as I use IPA
I guess since I'm not actually hearing you speak the constants it's difficult to know for sure if you are saying them how I think you might be saying them based on what I see. On the other hand you might be saying them perfectly! That's what's hard about transliteration and all the different ways you can do it. Here is a YouTube video of a guy who pronounces them very clearly. He is not a Khmer National, but still does a great job. Awesome, short videos.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; -- consonants.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; -- vowels, strong and weak sounds.
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Jacobincambodia
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Re: FFS - not even consensus on the alphabet?

Post by Jacobincambodia »

StroppyChops wrote:Also, can we have some discussion on whether it's wô or vô? Our tutor is adamant that it's wô but I've seen more than one source that says vô. I hear a /v/ fricative in spoken form but cannot see one in written form, unless this is it.
In a perfect world, I believe it's more of a V sound, but I think in everyday talk, it's a mix of W and V.
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Re: FFS - not even consensus on the alphabet?

Post by StroppyChops »

Thanks Jacob, will listen to that later.
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Re: FFS - not even consensus on the alphabet?

Post by flying chicken »

I grew up speaking 3 languages, and now 4. The best and fastest way learning how to speak a foreign language imo listen to what the natives say in their speech and later try to string the newly learned word in your own speech; it takes time, but very effective. And if you are serious about learning how to speak Khmer, I recommend the Svay Rieng, Battambong or even the Siem Reap accent as the pronunciation is clear and closest to the written words. PP accent is superficial.
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Re: FFS - not even consensus on the alphabet?

Post by giblet »

flying chicken wrote:And if you are serious about learning how to speak Khmer, I recommend the Svay Rieng, Battambong or even the Siem Reap accent as the pronunciation is clear and closest to the written words. PP accent is superficial.
Tell us more about the accents. How is the Phnom Penh accent superficial? :popcorn:
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Re: FFS - not even consensus on the alphabet?

Post by flying chicken »

I discussed about this before during my early day on khmer440. I.e rean & hean (study), srok sre and sok se (countryside), mui roi and moi hoi (500) etc.
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