Samouth wrote:

prahkeitouj wrote:Sometimes I don't like to walk with old people because they really care about saving face. I like to share when my friends and I having meal out together. If they think want to pay for the bill then I'll not enjoy my time. But if we have a dating, men should pay. :p

Having khmer girlfriend is headache. toooooooooo much spend.

Don't think only Khmer girlfriends! Every girls like this :p

prahkeitouj wrote:

Samouth wrote:

prahkeitouj wrote:Sometimes I don't like to walk with old people because they really care about saving face. I like to share when my friends and I having meal out together. If they think want to pay for the bill then I'll not enjoy my time. But if we have a dating, men should pay. :p

Having khmer girlfriend is headache. toooooooooo much spend.

Don't think only Khmer girlfriends! Every girls like this :p

You meant all girls are money oriented?

prahkeitouj wrote:

Samouth wrote:

prahkeitouj wrote:Sometimes I don't like to walk with old people because they really care about saving face. I like to share when my friends and I having meal out together. If they think want to pay for the bill then I'll not enjoy my time. But if we have a dating, men should pay.

Having khmer girlfriend is headache. toooooooooo much spend.

Don't think only Khmer girlfriends! Every girls like this

Heh, not quite. In the United States, it is common for the person who asks the other out to pay. Mostly this is men. However this only applies to the first few dates. After that, we usually split the tab or one will buy one time, and the other next. Some women I've dated prefer to split it from the beginning, but this is less common.

Samouth wrote:

MekongMouse wrote:I think the main difference between the Cambodian and western sense of "face" is the totality of it in Cambodia. Westerners are definitely concerned with saving face, but the thing is we are embarrassed by incidents as they happen, not like a long scorecard. We don't consider one-time incidents to be beyond repair. Many times I feel a Cambodian will react too seriously to insult or reprimand. Westerners on the other hand, we insult each other for fun; it is practically the national sport of Australia. There's this inability to just let bygones be bygones. We also consider it a much more individual thing. I don't lose any face because of stuff my sister does. Cambodians do. Luckily, I think this is more of an older generation thing...

I'll write more later, as I have a lot of thoughts on this, but I need to head out.

Hey MM please write more if you have time.

Sure. Basically, I think westerners are concerned with momentary embarrassment, but we have no concept of face as something that dictates our place in society. Face is the everyday. If I get into an argument with you and am clearly outwitted, I have lost face... but only for that moment. "Time heals all wounds" is a phrase that gets thrown around a bit, and the idea is basically that there is no embarrassment or insult that doesn't fade with time. I feel that in Cambodia, personal disputes aren't ever resolved. Here the quote equivalent appears to be "A head for an eye" and "When the water rises, the fish eat the ants; when the water recedes, the ants eat the fish." There's always a clash, perhaps where no clash actually existed.

There's this idea that society has to have some sort of hierarchy, that people have roles to fulfil, and I think this leads to face being such a big thing here. It isn't just a momentary embarrassment; it is the totality of everything you do - all your actions must be dictated by this need to save face, to play your role correctly. Every interaction is an opportunity to gain or lose face. In the west, face is something that pops up in certain situations, often involving power struggles or public embarrassment, but it isn't like I have to concern myself with it on a conscious level.

I think this consciousness that face has in Cambodian society leads to a lot of people acting in a way that westerners would consider "thin skinned" - basically quick to turn any criticism into something more serious, as if their entire reputation is on the line.

I know I'm usually quite positive about Cambodia, but I've always thought face is something that should be left to the history books. That said, I could be totally wrong. I would appreciate any corrections, because these are just musings I have.

OP:

Many Cambodians consider saving face is part of their daily life. To Cambodians in all level, saving face is what they always take into account and care the most. Cambodians would do whatever to save their faces and especially families. Cambodians are so much concerned how other people might think about them.

You also get this in western societies and it is usually linked to class values, and perceived status in society. Things like not betraying your class by marrying beneath you; behaving appropriately; having the "right" friends. People also go to certain schools and universities, belong to certain clubs because "this is what you do".
Also many westerners of all classes are concerned by what other people think of them: "What will the neighbours say?" is a common cliche. For example,many parents consider that they will be judged for the bad behaviour of their children.

In certain patriarchal societies you also see the "face" thing. In extreme examples, where the conduct of one member of the family will bring shame on the whole family, it can be seen as preferable to kill them rather than having the whole family dishonoured.

So face is not strictly Cambodian.

As a generalization, I think that "face" in its different forms comes down to the importance of the group or community in the structure of a society.
The more the group is important as a structure supporting society, the more it is deemed important for each individual to play the role that is expected of them.Any deviance is considered as a threat to the entire structure.
In individualistic societies, each person is seen as being responsible for their own actions, so less responsible toward the whole, and less responsible for one another.

(Wow, complex subject. The importance of face in Japanese culture is also well known. Could also discuss "face" and "place" in the context of religion and politics, but hey... )

Thanks MM and Anchor Bpee. I have learned a lot of from you guys. Thanks for taking time to put some inputs. If you happen to see me in real life and want to correct or criticize me, do it. i am Cambodian, but i don't take saving face seriously.

Samouth wrote: Driving crazily is one of Cambodia biggest problem. We have so many retard drivers which can kill everyone on the road in every minute. Because we have so many of those wankers, that's why the number of traffic accidents are increasing every year. If you look in local news, There are so many traffic accidents. Many people died every day.

When they were teen, there were not so many vehicles on the road i guess.

Obviously there lacks the political will to do anything about it.

I suspect a high percentage of all accidents here could be avoided by simple means, such as outlawing half wits from using phones whilst driving/riding, mandating all vehicles to have lights on at night, have working brake lights and indicators, and the tough one, obeying the traffic rules. Seriously, how many confiscated cars and motos would it take to make these dicks start following the rules? Almost every day in Phnom Penh and every time I head out of the city you see potentially lethal driving when there is absolutely no fucking need.

Also, I'd like to see some traps set to catch the freshie moto weavers who endanger everybody, they should have their motos confiscated and torched. How many confiscated and torched motos would it take to send out the message that this is unacceptable?

Good last point Samouth, I'd not thought of that. I suppose they just bought their rice paddy driving skills with them?

These dimwits are just as dangerous as an armed bandit and ought to be treated in like fashion.

Mrs S and I are currently roaming around Bangkok on the sky rail and subway. I know it will never happen, but PP needs a mass transit system other than motos and SUVs.

StroppyChops wrote:Mrs S and I are currently roaming around Bangkok on the sky rail and subway. I know it will never happen, but PP needs a mass transit system other than motos and SUVs.

I agree! Public transit is really going to become more and more necessary with population growth so we'd better start building now.