Borrowed words

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Borrowed words

Postby flying chicken » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:05 pm

I know there are a lot of borrowed words in the contemporary Khmer language. But what I noticed is that there are also borrowed words in Vietnamese long before it. For example, a few I can think off of my head right now are Ban Cheo (khmer version of pizza), Ban Sung etc. And the word Ye means reverse (as in vehicle)...those are Vietnamese words. What I am interested to learn is why and when it was borrowed. And why replace foreign words when one already has.
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Re: Borrowed words

Postby JBTrain » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:48 pm

flying chicken wrote:I know there are a lot of borrowed words in the contemporary Khmer language. But what I noticed is that there are also borrowed words in Vietnamese long before it. For example, a few I can think off of my head right now are Ban Cheo (khmer version of pizza), Ban Sung etc. And the word Ye means reverse (as in vehicle)...those are Vietnamese words. What I am interested to learn is why and when it was borrowed. And why replace foreign words when one already has.
I've wasted a considerable amount of time on the Bánh xèo controversy. While I know there are many words in Vietnamese borrowed from Khmer (especially place names in the south as you'd expect) this is one case where the scholarly consensus lines up on the Vietnamese side of things. It makes logical sense if the words have meaning in one language, here Bánh xèo in Vietnamese , but not in the second or third language, as with banh chao in Khmer or banh sao in Thai, the linguistic origin is pretty likely Vietnamese. The same theory would apply to luc lac/loc lac which is probably French Vietnamese in origin.

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Re: Borrowed words

Postby flying chicken » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:18 pm

Thanks for the info. I have been trying to figure it on my own for a while...out of my own interest (which none of the locals that I know of are interested in). And you brought something new which I otherwise can't. Appreciate it man.
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Re: Borrowed words

Postby Master Donut Baker » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:14 pm

flying chicken wrote:I know there are a lot of borrowed words in the contemporary Khmer language. But what I noticed is that there are also borrowed words in Vietnamese long before it. For example, a few I can think off of my head right now are Ban Cheo (khmer version of pizza), Ban Sung etc. And the word Ye means reverse (as in vehicle)...those are Vietnamese words. What I am interested to learn is why and when it was borrowed. And why replace foreign words when one already has.
ban cheo is a pizza?

I thought the italian invented pizza :o
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Re: Borrowed words

Postby StroppyChops » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:55 am

Master Donut Baker wrote:
flying chicken wrote:I know there are a lot of borrowed words in the contemporary Khmer language. But what I noticed is that there are also borrowed words in Vietnamese long before it. For example, a few I can think off of my head right now are Ban Cheo (khmer version of pizza), Ban Sung etc. And the word Ye means reverse (as in vehicle)...those are Vietnamese words. What I am interested to learn is why and when it was borrowed. And why replace foreign words when one already has.
ban cheo is a pizza?

I thought the italian invented pizza :o
No no, according to The Collective Wisdom of Fora pizzas were invented in Brooklyn. :roll:
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Re: Borrowed words

Postby Joon » Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:48 am

Cambodians also borrow from Chinese in everyday language. For instance, they call older ladies "Chae" instead of Bong Srey or "Y" instead of Ming.
I wouldn't see too much into that other than people having Chinese ancestry or thinking that you do (I'm fair-skinned so they always assume I'm Khmer-Chin).
Regarding food, I don't think it's strange that Cambodians borrow the Vietnamese names of dishes since they come from there in the first place.
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Re: Borrowed words

Postby flying chicken » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:54 am

I am aware that borrowed words are common. In term of food, Ban Cheo in this case is considered Khmer traditional food; I could be wrong, but I havent seen them selling on the streets when I was traveling in Vietnam.
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Re: Borrowed words

Postby JBTrain » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:02 am

flying chicken wrote:I am aware that borrowed words are common. In term of food, Ban Cheo in this case is considered Khmer traditional food; I could be wrong, but I havent seen them selling on the streets when I was traveling in Vietnam.
You need to look harder. Ban Cheo. Is traditional Khmer food borrowed from Vietnamese. You seem to have missed the point of the linguistics discussion. Read again! You'll note in Thailand it's also khanom beuang yuan which would only be appropriate if the Thais thought the dish was Vietnamese.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A1nh_x%C3%A8o" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

" banh xeo was selected as the most representative Vietnamese food during a voting contest for the citywide tourism campaign, HCM City – 100 Interesting Things."

http://vietnamnews.vn/sunday/restaurant ... ialty.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Borrowed words

Postby flying chicken » Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:16 am

So is it safe to assume anything food starts with the word Ban in Khmer originated from Vietnam? For example, Ban Cha Neok (a type of dessert), Ban Sung, Ban Gang (a stewy noodle soup type) etc.
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Re: Borrowed words

Postby JBTrain » Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:11 am

flying chicken wrote:So is it safe to assume anything food starts with the word Ban in Khmer originated from Vietnam? For example, Ban Cha Neok (a type of dessert), Ban Sung, Ban Gang (a stewy noodle soup type) etc.
I'm hardly a linguistics expert so i can't say for all. The two relevant words in Vietnamese are banh (banh xeo, banh mi, banh khot etc) and bun (bun rieu, bun cha, bun bo Hue), the former a very general term used with a paired descriptor for all kinds of cakes, breads and flour based foods both sweet and savory. Bun generally is used for rice noodle dishes.

What is ban gang? In Viet there is banh canh which is a cake-like noodle in soups. Like that?
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