Explain a barfine please?

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OrangeDragon
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Re: Explain a barfine please?

Post by OrangeDragon » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:36 pm

the only time i ever went to one it was very clearly a mamasan, and she was very clearly setting the prices and collecting the money.
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vladimir
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Re: Explain a barfine please?

Post by vladimir » Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:11 pm

OrangeDragon wrote:
vladimir wrote:It amuses me that when Khmers run a karaoke joint and employ 'hostesses', it's 'pimping or trafficking', but when a white guy runs a bar and does the same it's not.

Interesting double standards.
there's actually a difference in the process as I understand it. in the karaoke joints the money you pay for the "fun" with the girl goes to the person running it, with them getting a small cut. in a hostess bar only the barfine goes to the bar, and the money you give the girl she keeps.

one is pimping, the other is simply providing a venue.
Which one is pimping/not pimping?

They are both employed and the owner pays them to provide a sexual service, directly or indirectly. Freelancers, the owner is perhaps not so culpable, but providing a venue for an illegal activity is illegal in most countries.
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jah steu
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Re: Explain a barfine please?

Post by jah steu » Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:43 pm

vladimir wrote:
Which one is pimping/not pimping?

They are both employed and the owner pays them to provide a sexual service, directly or indirectly. Freelancers, the owner is perhaps not so culpable, but providing a venue for an illegal activity is illegal in most countries.
This is a semantic argument that keeps popping up every few months.
As a bar owner I definitely don't employ the staff to provide a sexual service. They earn far more money for me by staying in the bar and getting the customers to buy drinks for themselves and the girls. I try and minimise the number of girls that get taken out of the bar by customers. All my promotional and marketing effort is aimed at getting customers to visit the bar, and keep them there when they do arrive.

However I am obviously aware that when girls are taken out by customers, some may end up with them at hotels. That's entirely the girl's choice, and the bar does not profit from this at all. Yes most bars request financial compensation for the girl leaving the bar early as the bar is losing money by not having the girl available to entertain customers.
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Re: Explain a barfine please?

Post by phuketrichard » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:07 pm

jah steu wrote:
vladimir wrote:
Which one is pimping/not pimping?

They are both employed and the owner pays them to provide a sexual service, directly or indirectly. Freelancers, the owner is perhaps not so culpable, but providing a venue for an illegal activity is illegal in most countries.
This is a semantic argument that keeps popping up every few months.
As a bar owner I definitely don't employ the staff to provide a sexual service. They earn far more money for me by staying in the bar and getting the customers to buy drinks for themselves and the girls. I try and minimise the number of girls that get taken out of the bar by customers. All my promotional and marketing effort is aimed at getting customers to visit the bar, and keep them there when they do arrive.

However I am obviously aware that when girls are taken out by customers, some may end up with them at hotels. That's entirely the girl's choice, and the bar does not profit from this at all. Yes most bars request financial compensation for the girl leaving the bar early as the bar is losing money by not having the girl available to entertain customers.
OK; you opened yourself to this

how much do you pay them? $60-100/month?
$1/drink that they get a customer to buy them? DO you pay them a commission on drinks their customers buy?
do you call that honest wages?
when they can make a weeks wages in 1 night of after work activity
Are you saying you do NOT charge a bar fine/ do not cut a girls wages if she does not come to work?

Its a fine line, BUT
if u allow your staff to go off work early by paying a bar fine ur a pimp, as you benefit from what they are being bar fined to do. You might rationalize it to make yourself feel better ( this statement proves that, However I am obviously aware that when girls are taken out by customers, some may end up with them at hotels.)but... :please:
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Re: Explain a barfine please?

Post by OrangeDragon » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:16 pm

phuketrichard wrote: if u allow your staff to go off work early by paying a bar fine ur a pimp, as you benefit from what they are being bar fined to do.
nonsense. it's a fee to leave work early. even if they want to go do needlepoint and get their hair done and pay it themselves.

the money for the barfine isn't for sex, and doesn't guarantee sex, so it's not pimping. it's compensation for lost revenue because you're down one staff member.
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vladimir
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Re: Explain a barfine please?

Post by vladimir » Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:30 pm

OrangeDragon wrote:the money for the barfine isn't for sex
I disagree. The customer pays the fine and takes the girl home for sex. Anyone that thinks otherwise is a retard. For anyone to claim that the owner doesn't know, and is therefore not involved is absolutely laughable.

This is a legal loophole cited by some to massage their consciences.(puns, I know)

I believe that while many things may be legal, not all legal things are moral.

The owner provides/encourages women to enter his place to attract men. Simple. An owner who pays girls and then accepts a bar fine, knowing what happens, cannot claim innocence.

If the owner is not paying the women, then that is slightly different, as it's a free zone, but generally, there are no bar fines associated with free entry, like WA.(or there weren't years ago)
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Garry.Crabtree
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Re: Explain a barfine please?

Post by Garry.Crabtree » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:02 pm

Hey the closest I can get to paid sex, is having a wank at work.
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Re: Explain a barfine please?

Post by phuketrichard » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:06 pm

OD:
the money for the barfine isn't for sex, and doesn't guarantee sex, so it's not pimping.
BULLSHIT
go bar fine agirl than the next day go back to the bar and tell the owner the girl split before she would fuck an see if he does not return your $$

is there a bar fine for grocery clerks/ hotel staff/mall employees/gas station attendants?

Pull ur head out of the sand.

$10 bar fine for a girl making $80/month
and i am sure she will pay $10 to go have her hair done rather than work :ROFL:
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Re: Explain a barfine please?

Post by Kuroneko » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:32 pm

Procuring or pandering is the facilitation or provision of a prostitute in the arrangement of a sex act with a customer. A procurer, colloquially called a pimp (if male) or a madam (if female), is an agent for prostitutes who collects part of their earnings.

A hostess provides company and entertainment for the evening in the bar where she works in exchange for drinks and tips. A hostess is not necesseryly a prostitute although some may decide to prostitute themselves. The girls in the hostess bars do not think of themselves as prostitutes even if some of the customers do. Some hostesses working in the bars are virgin or original as they say and do not go with customers. Then there is a sliding scale from girls that rarely go with customers through to the proverbial village bike. Similarly not all hostess bars are alike. While the ones catering for holidaying "boguns" tend to be awash wth "village bikes" There are many others that are more "evening etertainment" focussed.

Regardless of bar quality the owners are not making money from any prostitute type activity the girls engage in with once they leave the bar. Since the owner does not collect any of their earnings from this activity he is not a pimp.

Girls typically make $80 - $100 basic. Popular girls make an extra $200 on lady drinks and tips. For many this is enough. The bar as already mentioned by one poster makes its money on selling drinks. The barfine as I mentioned in a previous post compensates for loss of potential earnings created by that girl. Like the girl I mentioned in a previous post who was sick. Docked $40 dollars for four days, the same as if she had been barfined.
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vladimir
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Re: Explain a barfine please?

Post by vladimir » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:57 pm

Kuroneko wrote:Regardless of bar quality the owners are not making money from any prostitute type activity the girls engage in with once they leave the bar. Since the owner does not collect any of their earnings from this activity he is not a pimp..
Yeah, I was only obeying orders.

The owner profits from hookers working ex his residence. Customers come to his place because of the girls and he makes money.

How is that not 'collecting earnings'?

To test this, remove the girls, and see how happy the owner is. Wow. Surprise, not happy.

He's a pimp. Deal with it.
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