I'm not tech savy, however I still struggle to understand the value of bitcoin. As far as I can tell, it only has value because people say it has value, just like paper currency of today. Yes I can understand that it is independent of central banking monetary systems (and I'm all for that), but it doesn't have any intrinsic value like gold or silver does. The only reason I see that it has any sort of worth is because you can trade it for paper currency which you can then buy things with. If the currency system goes down, then wouldn't bitcoin as well?

I'm old fashioned admittedly and I go for plain element 79 on the periodic table to save up plus hard goods, but I'm trying to understand why people think bitcoin is a safe haven from central scheisters.

vladimir wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2017 12:04 pm
The worst Cambodian Bank would eat them for breakfast.

I don't think any bank can come close in comparison to the U.S. Federal Reserve.

AE86 wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2017 11:47 pmAs far as I can tell, it only has value because people say it has value, just like paper currency of today.

Paper currency has value because you can pay your taxes with it. If it does not have enough value, it is just a question of increasing taxes. Up to a certain point, of course. If the government prints new money faster than the tax department can suck it back out of the economy, growing inflation will still be unavoidable. To make things worse, the banking system creates ten times more money than the government; all of which needs to be sucked out of the economy too ... ultimately also through taxation.

AE86 wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2017 11:47 pmit doesn't have any intrinsic value like gold or silver does.

If something cannot be duplicated, is not strictly worthless, and can be transferred online, it will be useful as a method of payment.

Imagine that a non-duplicatable non-strictly-worthless transferable (NDNSWT) has a value of just 0.00001 dollar. It is almost worthless, but not completely. Imagine that you are in Tokyo and If you want to transfer $100 to someone in New York. You can buy 10 000 000 NDNSWT for $100 in Tokyo, transfer the 10 000 000 NDNSWT online to the beneficiary, who will then sell them in New York for $100.

The first people who will really be interested in using NDNSWT are people who are prevented from using the banking system to transfer money, such as people trading in forbidden products online, such as recreational drugs. So, the trade in these things beefs up the demand for NDNSWT. Non-criminals will also like to use it, because it is cheaper and faster to transfer money using NDNSWT than through the banks. So, the value of 1 NDNSWT gradually increases from $0.00001 to $0.001 to $0.1 to $1 to $10 to $100 to $1000 ... and so on. Since it keeps growing in value, people also start using it for their savings. So, that makes the availability/supply drop. So, supply and demand keep pushing its value higher.

Transferring money with any form of NDNSWT will always be superior to transferring money through banks, because nobody can prevent you from sending or receiving NDNSWT, while the banks routinely do that. Using any kind of NDNSWT for the purpose of saving, will always be superior to using paper or digital fiat money, because nobody can duplicate it and hence debase it; while the government and the banks keep printing additional paper/digital fiat money. Since you cannot transfer gold or silver over the internet, any NDNSWT will always be a superior payment method to gold and silver. Furthermore, it is easy for governments to confiscate the balance on your bank account, but impossible to take away your NDNSWT. Therefore, NDNSWT is much safer to keep around.

Bitcoin is obviously not the only way to produce a non-duplicatable non-strictly-worthless transferable (NDNSWT). One problem, however, was that governments would always manage to shut down such NDNSWT. That is why we had to wait for a completely-decentralized non-duplicatable non-strictly-worthless transferable (CDNDNSWT). Since bitcoin does indeed not have a central point of failure that governments can attack to shut it down, it has survived any attempt to do so, by the 200+ worthless fiat money printing governments.

Bitcoin is under continuous attack, but since it is an excellent CDNDNSWT, its value just keeps growing with no end in sight, in spite of all these attacks.

NOTE: Initially an NDNSWT is worthless. It will acquire its first $0.00001 of value from the fact that some people who read its description, realize that its characteristics are valuable and could form the basis of a payment method. At that point, it becomes "non-strictly-worthless", and from there on, its minute initial value of less than $0.00001 starts snowballing.

AE86 wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2017 11:47 pmIf the currency system goes down, then wouldn't bitcoin as well?

Bitcoin would go down if the internet does.

For UT who stated, "If you are a foreigner living here on a Business Visa (or whatever it's called now) you require a Work Permit regardless of where you derive your income (and that seems to include pensions).
On the upside, I believe they are looking into these issues."

As a retired foreign I found this claim quite disconcerting. Do you have any reliable anecdotal evidence that shows that retirees would owe money for retroactive year visas when they weren't employed? Thanks!

Sorry for the false witch hunt UT. I should have noticed the date.

eriksank wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2017 2:06 am
Stuff on bitcoin

Thanks for that, and I did read it. I think I'll have to look into bitcoin more later on as I'm not entirely familiar with it.

Isn't bitcoin one of those nerdy computer things that no one much knows/ cares about? Don't see how THAT'S gunna replace cash!

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Barang chgout wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2017 8:45 amIsn't bitcoin one of those nerdy computer things that no one much knows/ cares about? D on't see how THAT'S gunna replace cash! Sent from my SM-G570Y using Tapatalk.

You're sending this from a Samsung computer/phone in your pocket. If we want to put a "computer" on every desk, in every home, and in every pocket, we need people like Bill Gates, a total nerd, and who is now the richest man in the world, sitting on $80 billion. Only nerds invent things and make mankind progress. Without nerds, all of us would still be living in caves today!

Yep! Samsung, bought wirh CASH! Phone credit, yep cash too....

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