What brought you here? What made you stay?

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Rain Dog
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Re: What brought you here? What made you stay?

Postby Rain Dog » Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:47 pm

phuketrichard wrote: How many of you that have been there for years own your homes, which if as u say, Cambodia is better for investment, would be a good investment? Owning a home is NOT elitist
PhuketRichard, I believe we are mis-communicating over terminology. I originally referred specifically to a crackdown on "Tourist Entries" in general ---- not specifically Tourist Visa Entries --- so I have no idea why you would say I was wrong. Visa Exempt entries are one form of tourist entry (short stay visits) and Tourist Visa entries for longer term. Both are forms of tourist entry. The major crack down has been on Visa Exempt entries because that is where most of the abuse has taken place. I can tell you there is much debate within Thai Policy making circles about Tourist Visa Entries as well. You claim that these new policies will have no effect on "Real Tourists" but I would like you to show me where any definition exists of a "Real Tourists". I can tell you such debates have been going on within the Thai Government for some time, and as far as I know have never been finalized. Certainly you are correct in the case of average Joe Blow who brings his family for a once in a lifetime visit to SEA -- he will not be affected. But what about the other types of "Grey Tourism" --- guys who spend 6 months a year in Thailand coming in and out. In many cases these are not "Bottom Feeders" but people who are mobile enough to reside in different countries and in many cases have purchased Condominiums here. The Thai Government has been very schizophrenic with regard to foreigners --- on one side having a somewhat Paranoid and Xenophobic streak while on the other side being afraid of the economic impact of cracking down too hard. This effect of killing off "Grey Tourism" would not only affect tourist dollars, but could in theory lead to a property market crash in some sectors. The issues are far more complex than you indicate in your sweeping generalizations about "real tourists" (whomever they may be).

As to work permits, I am both surprised and intrigued by your comments. Of course you can beat any system with the right contacts, but you seem to imply that anyone can get a work permit easily if they find someone willing to support them. Everything I have heard from Business owners and managers suggests the exact opposite. I mentioned low end manufacturing and construction labor before, but there is also a labor problem in the service sector due to the lack of motivated, competent, English speaking human resources. I know many businesses in internationally oriented service sectors that are actually desperate to bring in more Filipina labor --- but cannot not do it because of the costs (time, financial, justification). If it were so easy as you say, there would be a huge market of businesses doing "fake hires" of foreigners. I think the Thai Government is more clever than you give them credit for. Anyway it's great you and your girlfriend could beat the system, but I do not think you should generalize as to how easy it is.

Finally, if I can interject into your debate with HotDigr about elitism and investing in Cambodia. Of course it is not "elitist" to own a home or a car. That said, you do seem to boast a lot about your homes in Kep and Phuket. Cambodia is appealing to investors because it is so deregulated and EASY to set up and do business in. That does not mean that one SHOULD invest here. Having walked away from corporate life almost two years ago, I am personally interested in entrepreneurial opportunities. I have pondered ideas, like starting my own bar, trying to set up a consultancy here, hell after a few beers too many I even briefly considered looking at a certain internet forum that is on the market. The problem is the numbers and risk/reward ratios don't add up. If I could afford to lose all of my savings I might take a chance and have a more liberal attitudes towards risk -- but I cannot -- so I do not.

The same applies to property here. The urban property market is horrifically inflated, and the provinces will require a long term outlook to see any type of return. The legal infrastructure is shaky at best.

If I understand correctly you have been in and around Thailand for 20-25 years and it seems you may have financially benefited from the timing. That does not mean you should look down on others or look down on Cambodia. Cambodia's time will come --- but it's not here yet unless you are an insider or big risk taker.

Cheers,

RD.
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The Rum pours strong and thin. Beat out the dustman with the Rain Dogs;
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phuketrichard
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Re: What brought you here? What made you stay?

Postby phuketrichard » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:34 am

great info an seems ur connected to some valid info,

1 point,for true long term tourists its very easy to obtain a double tourist visa in Laos and even easier in your home country ,and even a triple ( Bali also issues one but u need show flights out 3 times) entry. the states and the UK give them out.
so the person looking to come 4-8 months from their own country is accommodated and that is not going to change as they are returning after being a tourist to their homeland.

You and both know the people there looking to stop, the back to back visa exempt entries and or the back to back Tourist visa entries from nearby countries.

Still begs to my original question, why are so few westerners buying /building homes in Cambodia unlike Thailand?
Buying a home is not always about an investment but committing to living somewhere and/ or giving your wife/family security for their future as well.

Are they unsure of their future?
feel its a bad investment?
not enough $$
happier renting?

Thanks
Last edited by phuketrichard on Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely. HST
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phuketrichard
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Re: What brought you here? What made you stay?

Postby phuketrichard » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:36 am

PS; internet forums ??? 555555555

Labor of love

Philippines working in Thailand

ASEAN 2015 (if it really does happen, i have my doubts) will open this up to them an it will make a HUGE impact to have so many english speakers available for work, especially in the middle management area
In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely. HST
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Re: What brought you here? What made you stay?

Postby Cowshed Cowboy » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:33 am

Rain Dog wrote:
phuketrichard wrote: How many of you that have been there for years own your homes, which if as u say, Cambodia is better for investment, would be a good investment?
Cambodia is appealing to investors because it is so deregulated and EASY to set up and do business in. That does not mean that one SHOULD invest here. Having walked away from corporate life almost two years ago, I am personally interested in entrepreneurial opportunities. I have pondered ideas, like starting my own bar, trying to set up a consultancy here, hell after a few beers too many I even briefly considered looking at a certain internet forum that is on the market. The problem is the numbers and risk/reward ratios don't add up. If I could afford to lose all of my savings I might take a chance and have a more liberal attitudes towards risk -- but I cannot -- so I do not.

The same applies to property here. The urban property market is horrifically inflated, and the provinces will require a long term outlook to see any type of return. The legal infrastructure is shaky at best.

Cambodia's time will come --- but it's not here yet unless you are an insider or big risk taker.

Cheers,

RD.
I agree with the above Rain Dog and the visa content of your post. I looked at buying a place in Phnom Penh a few years ago but for the reasons you mentioned didn't. I have been visa affected in Thailand being under 50 & single but owning my own property, the upside being I've spent more time exploring Cambodia and assessing it from a liveable future prospect, what would make me come and stay here if you like. I still wouldn't feel comfortable buying property but hats off those that do if it suits there situation. I gain a bit of personal satisfaction that the disposable cash I spend here helps the economy in a small way in a country that seems very welcoming in many respects.
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Re: What brought you here? What made you stay?

Postby Satiated Parrot » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:55 pm

phuketrichard wrote:PS; internet forums ??? 555555555

Labor of love

Philippines working in Thailand

ASEAN 2015 (if it really does happen, i have my doubts) will open this up to them an it will make a HUGE impact to have so many english speakers available for work, especially in the middle management area
The Filipinos will eat every other ASEANite alive.

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Re: What brought you here? What made you stay?

Postby vladimir » Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:48 am

including Singapore?

Eat them alive...mmm...me lurv u short-time.
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Rain Dog
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Re: What brought you here? What made you stay?

Postby Rain Dog » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:20 am

phuketrichard wrote:PS; internet forums ??? 555555555

Labor of love

Philippines working in Thailand

ASEAN 2015 (if it really does happen, i have my doubts) will open this up to them an it will make a HUGE impact to have so many english speakers available for work, especially in the middle management area
Well -- as to the forum --- I did say "after a few beers too many" -- perhaps I should have said "many beers too many" :beer2:

ASEAN 2015 --- Yea I have my doubts. Personally I think the ongoing political crisis will be used by Thailand to slow their own acceptance of responsibilities as to this agreement.
Everyone keeps talking about Philippines (due to its vast supply of English speaking potential hires willing to leave their country) but I think people are sleeping on Indonesia a bit --- not for labor exports -- but for other reasons.
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The Rum pours strong and thin. Beat out the dustman with the Rain Dogs;
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Rain Dog
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Re: What brought you here? What made you stay?

Postby Rain Dog » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:18 pm

Cowshed Cowboy wrote: I agree with the above Rain Dog and the visa content of your post. I looked at buying a place in Phnom Penh a few years ago but for the reasons you mentioned didn't. I have been visa affected in Thailand being under 50 & single but owning my own property, the upside being I've spent more time exploring Cambodia and assessing it from a liveable future prospect, what would make me come and stay here if you like. I still wouldn't feel comfortable buying property but hats off those that do if it suits there situation. I gain a bit of personal satisfaction that the disposable cash I spend here helps the economy in a small way in a country that seems very welcoming in many respects.
Yes -- you are totally correct. Spend some money here and help the economy a bit. No need to rush head first into a market that is not ready.
Taxi, we'd rather walk. Huddle a doorway with the rain dogs
The Rum pours strong and thin. Beat out the dustman with the Rain Dogs;
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Re: What brought you here? What made you stay?

Postby Bitte_Kein_Lexus » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:46 pm

phuketrichard wrote:Still begs to my original question, why are so few westerners buying /building homes in Cambodia unlike Thailand?
Buying a home is not always about an investment but committing to living somewhere and/ or giving your wife/family security for their future as well.

Are they unsure of their future?
feel its a bad investment?
not enough $$
happier renting?

Thanks
I know several foreigners who live outside Phnom Penh who own their own homes. I also know some people in the city who own their land/apartment. But you're right: they are relatively few. I think there are a few reasons for that:

1-Condo developments are very new. Just 5 years ago there were virtually no condo towers around. Especially up to western standards.
2-Prices are out of wack. You can get a really nice condo in Thailand for a fraction of what they cost in Phnom Penh. Even in smaller cities (which have all the amenities of modern life that a foreigner might want). Build quality is also better in Thailand, so you get way more bang for your buck. Land prices vary, but if you're out in the sticks... see point#3
3-Cambodia isn't as "developed". That is, small towns won't have a 7/11, cheese, milk, good infrastructure (electricity access), medical care etc. So I think it's normal that there aren't as many retirees buying up land and building homes in the countryside or in small towns (when comparing to Thailand).
4-There are fewer expats in Cambodia, and given it's fairly recent "opening up", there are relatively few expats who have lived here 20+ years compared to Thailand. People who buy are (usually) those who plan on living here for a long time. See next point.
5-Rentals are fairly expensive compared to Thailand from what I hear (especially in the capital), but the transient nature of many expats here means that won't be as likely to buy a place here, even if they had the dosh.
6-Land grabs/financial security

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Re: What brought you here? What made you stay?

Postby phuketrichard » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:00 pm

+ i agree on all point

the reason i brought land is
for my gf security and not for me

and IF the shit does hit the fan here ( an it most likely will in my life time) its a place to rest up
In a nation run by swine, all pigs are upward-mobile and the rest of us are fucked until we can put our acts together: not necessarily to win, but mainly to keep from losing completely. HST


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