Is the $5 per day overstay rule still in place?

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explorer
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Re: Is the $5 per day overstay rule still in place?

Post by explorer » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:09 pm

daeum_tnaot wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:38 pm
explorer wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:36 pm
daeum_tnaot wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:19 pm
From my perspective on the language controversy, the Khmer letter in question actually varies from a 'p' to a 'b' depending on the word, and as one person mentioned, it can also be between the two like a 'bp' sound. It seems that I remember that other letters in Khmer also have this same tendency. It's strange, but I think it results from the writing of words being quite old, whereas the pronunciation evolves over time, in some cases leaving the original written version behind.
Much of this occurs because we think of it from the perspective of English. They don't determine their pronunciation with reverence to English. English letters can be said in different ways, and Khmer letters can be said in different ways.
Not totally in agreement. Yes it is true that some letters in English have more than one pronunciation. But I think it is fairly standardized (with some variations depending on dialect, for example the silent 'h' sound).

Having studied a few other languages, Khmer seems to be unusual to me in the extent to which there is ambiguity about sounds of certain letters, that fluctuate between two sounds, or somewhere dead in the middle. Another example is the 'd', 't', and 'dt' sound. Again, I am speculating but I suspect that this is because of archaic spellings.
I mentioned the example before of the sound of the letter 'y.' We normally think of it as it is pronounced in yellow. But when people learning English see it in the word happy, to them it is a completely different sound. We see the same letter does not always sound the same in their language, and they see the same letter does not always sound the same in our language.

I suggest people learn the Khmer alphabet. This will help them pronounce words more correctly.
## I thought I knew all the answers, but they changed all the questions. ##
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Re: Is the $5 per day overstay rule still in place?

Post by daeum_tnaot » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:26 pm

explorer wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:09 pm
daeum_tnaot wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 1:38 pm
explorer wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:36 pm
daeum_tnaot wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:19 pm
From my perspective on the language controversy, the Khmer letter in question actually varies from a 'p' to a 'b' depending on the word, and as one person mentioned, it can also be between the two like a 'bp' sound. It seems that I remember that other letters in Khmer also have this same tendency. It's strange, but I think it results from the writing of words being quite old, whereas the pronunciation evolves over time, in some cases leaving the original written version behind.
Much of this occurs because we think of it from the perspective of English. They don't determine their pronunciation with reverence to English. English letters can be said in different ways, and Khmer letters can be said in different ways.
Not totally in agreement. Yes it is true that some letters in English have more than one pronunciation. But I think it is fairly standardized (with some variations depending on dialect, for example the silent 'h' sound).

Having studied a few other languages, Khmer seems to be unusual to me in the extent to which there is ambiguity about sounds of certain letters, that fluctuate between two sounds, or somewhere dead in the middle. Another example is the 'd', 't', and 'dt' sound. Again, I am speculating but I suspect that this is because of archaic spellings.
I mentioned the example before of the sound of the letter 'y.' We normally think of it as it is pronounced in yellow. But when people learning English see it in the word happy, to them it is a completely different sound. We see the same letter does not always sound the same in their language, and they see the same letter does not always sound the same in our language.

I suggest people learn the Khmer alphabet. This will help them pronounce words more correctly.
The 'y' in English is actually two very distinct sounds.

In Khmer there are a few letters (I haven't made a record of which ones exactly) that vary between similar sounds, for example d --> dt --> t, or b --> bp --> p and this in my view leads to the kind of confusion that led to the argument on this post. Even if you try to learn the letters, the authors of books teaching the sounds of the letters will often put a sound that doesn't match one's own experience of the sound.

Anyway, just my thoughts, you can disagree with me and it all doesn't really matter much.
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Re: Is the $5 per day overstay rule still in place?

Post by Kammekor » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:12 pm

explorer wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:36 pm
daeum_tnaot wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:19 pm
From my perspective on the language controversy, the Khmer letter in question actually varies from a 'p' to a 'b' depending on the word, and as one person mentioned, it can also be between the two like a 'bp' sound. It seems that I remember that other letters in Khmer also have this same tendency. It's strange, but I think it results from the writing of words being quite old, whereas the pronunciation evolves over time, in some cases leaving the original written version behind.
Much of this occurs because we think of it from the perspective of English. They don't determine their pronunciation with reverence to English. English letters can be said in different ways, and Khmer letters can be said in different ways.
The only people learning Khmer are (native) English speakers? Seriously?

I must be the odd exception then.
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Re: Is the $5 per day overstay rule still in place?

Post by explorer » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:50 pm

daeum_tnaot wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:26 pm
In Khmer there are a few letters (I haven't made a record of which ones exactly) that vary between similar sounds, for example d --> dt --> t, or b --> bp --> p. Even if you try to learn the letters, the authors of books teaching the sounds of the letters will often put a sound that doesn't match one's own experience of the sound.

Anyway, just my thoughts, you can disagree with me and it all doesn't really matter much.
I agree with you. However, Cambodians don't necessarily think of them having different sounds. It is just people who are learning the language who see it that way.

While books may assist you a little, you need to learn from people, or you will pronounce words very badly. Even when learning the letters, see how they are written in books, but get Cambodians to pronounce them for you.
## I thought I knew all the answers, but they changed all the questions. ##
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Re: Is the $5 per day overstay rule still in place?

Post by explorer » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:14 pm

daeum_tnaot wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:26 pm
this in my view leads to the kind of confusion that led to the argument on this post.
There are a lot of different situations, and each needs to be taken separately. However, a significant amount of debate comes from people misconstruing what others said.

For example, we are on a forum where English is used, and people contributing speak English. I made the comment:
explorer wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:36 pm
Much of this occurs because we think of it from the perspective of English. They don't determine their pronunciation with reverence to English. English letters can be said in different ways, and Khmer letters can be said in different ways.
Then Kammekor says:
Kammekor wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:12 pm
The only people learning Khmer are (native) English speakers? Seriously?
He will repeat again and again in other topics, that I said: The only people learning Khmer are (native) English speakers?

I did not say that at all. But he doesn't give a link to the original post, so some people believe him. Others can see what is going on.
## I thought I knew all the answers, but they changed all the questions. ##
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Re: Is the $5 per day overstay rule still in place?

Post by Kammekor » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:51 pm

explorer wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:14 pm
daeum_tnaot wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:26 pm
this in my view leads to the kind of confusion that led to the argument on this post.
There are a lot of different situations, and each needs to be taken separately. However, a significant amount of debate comes from people misconstruing what others said.

For example, we are on a forum where English is used, and people contributing speak English. I made the comment:
explorer wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:36 pm
Much of this occurs because we think of it from the perspective of English. They don't determine their pronunciation with reverence to English. English letters can be said in different ways, and Khmer letters can be said in different ways.
Then Kammekor says:
Kammekor wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:12 pm
The only people learning Khmer are (native) English speakers? Seriously?
He will repeat again and again in other topics, that I said: The only people learning Khmer are (native) English speakers?

I did not say that at all. But he doesn't give a link to the original post, so some people believe him. Others can see what is going on.
The problems arising from the conversion table to convert Khmer script to Latin script (that's the subject here) has nothing to do with:
explorer wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:36 pm
Much of this occurs because we think of it from the perspective of English.
The conversion table is used for all languages with Latin script, so it's not perfect for any language using that script. However, conversion table is still a strong tool to express Khmer words in Latin letters.

The fact you choose not to use the conversion table because it doesn't fit the way you pronounce English words doesn't change that.
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Re: Is the $5 per day overstay rule still in place?

Post by explorer » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:45 pm

Kammekor wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:12 pm
The only people learning Khmer are (native) English speakers? Seriously?

I must be the odd exception then.
Did I say: The only people learning Khmer are (native) English speakers?
## I thought I knew all the answers, but they changed all the questions. ##
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Re: Is the $5 per day overstay rule still in place?

Post by Kammekor » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:55 pm

explorer wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:45 pm
Kammekor wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:12 pm
The only people learning Khmer are (native) English speakers? Seriously?

I must be the odd exception then.
Did I say: The only people learning Khmer are (native) English speakers?
No, you didn't.

You did post a lot of other nonsense though, so that's why I replied with this message.

But maybe we can have a beer, or a cup of tea, some time? You seem to know a lot about Cambodia and I'm always eager to learn.
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Re: Is the $5 per day overstay rule still in place?

Post by explorer » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:58 pm

Kammekor wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:55 pm
explorer wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:45 pm
Kammekor wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:12 pm
The only people learning Khmer are (native) English speakers? Seriously?

I must be the odd exception then.
Did I say: The only people learning Khmer are (native) English speakers?
No, you didn't.
So do you agree you are being dishonest to win the argument?
## I thought I knew all the answers, but they changed all the questions. ##
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Re: Is the $5 per day overstay rule still in place?

Post by Kammekor » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:04 pm

explorer wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:58 pm
Kammekor wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:55 pm
explorer wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:45 pm
Kammekor wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:12 pm
The only people learning Khmer are (native) English speakers? Seriously?

I must be the odd exception then.
Did I say: The only people learning Khmer are (native) English speakers?
No, you didn't.
So do you agree you are being dishonest to win the argument?
Yes, I'm the biggest liar on this forum.

:please:
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