I need 20 amps

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pczz
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Re: I need 20 amps

Post by pczz »

explorer wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:30 pm
pczz wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:16 pm What about the other loads like fridge freezer? If you go to low you might find your ice cream melting when you put on aircon and have a shower
No.

If you have an appropriate circuit breaker for the wire, and you draw too much power, the circuit breaker will turn off. So you wont have any power at all. You will need to turn off something, or when you turn it on again, it will just turn off again.

If the wire is too thin for the rating of the circuit breaker, it may heat up, and possibly start a fire.

There is another issue. If you have thin wires over a long distance, there may be voltage drop, which may cause things to not work properly.
I am not sure you are 100% correct but i am no electrician. The fuse will pop if the voltage is too high, not if it is too low. If the cabling is for 20 amps and the electricity coming in is only 16 then everything gets less electric so lights dim, tv crackles and fridge cannot maintain proper temperature.OP says when the aircon is on the water is tepid, so it looks like the available current is being reduced to all devices
explorer
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Re: I need 20 amps

Post by explorer »

pczz wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:42 pm I am not sure you are 100% correct but i am no electrician. The fuse will pop if the voltage is too high, not if it is too low. If the cabling is for 20 amps and the electricity coming in is only 16 then everything gets less electric so lights dim, tv crackles and fridge cannot maintain proper temperature.OP says when the aircon is on the water is tepid, so it looks like the available current is being reduced to all devices
Voltage and current are two different things. Volts measure voltage, and amps measure current.

The circuit breaker will throw off, (or the fuse will blow,) if the current is too high, not the voltage.
explorer wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:30 pm There is another issue. If you have thin wires over a long distance, there may be voltage drop, which may cause things to not work properly.
If the lights dim, the fridge cannot maintain the proper temperature, and the water is not heated much, this is due to voltage drop. If a lot of things are turned on at the same time, voltage drop may be greater.

In Cambodia there is also another issue. Sometimes the power supply for the whole area is overloaded. So you get voltage drop across the whole area. They need to increase the supply to overcome this.
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monomial
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Re: I need 20 amps

Post by monomial »

explorer wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:54 am
monomial wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:42 pm The truth is that 1.5mm cable is the most common because it works for circuits up to 20A in this environment and is basically safe. It is used throughout SE Asia (not just Cambodia) and there are millions of homes that prove its suitability.
All of the references I have seen say 1.5mm cable is not suitable for 20A. Here is one reference:
The following wire areas were translated from a Chinese Electrical Code Manual Ampacity Table.

1.5 mm2 - 15 Amp
2.5 mm2 - 21 Amp
http://www.ronhuebner.us/wire_sizes.htm

In Australia, there is a greater margin of safety. That is, the same size wire is used for less amps.

I know, in Cambodia, a lot of electrical wiring is very dodgy. A lot of them get away with it because they actually use less amps than they say the circuit can supply.

But it is very bad advice to tell people to use undersize wires. Sooner or later, this will cause fires. Sooner or later, someone will be killed.

It is sad when foreigners come here and discover a lot of things are dodgy. So they think it is OK to do everything dodgy themselves.

It is sad when people don't care about safety or human life, if they can save a few dollars.
Nobody on this forum has ever said to use undersized wires. I think this whole discussion has been about appropriately sized wires. Australia is possibly not the best example of a country for determining appropriately sized wires. Australia has a history of oversizing things for what appears to be no particular reason. Their telecom rules for example. Everywhere else in the world, the isolation required for telecom equipment is 1500 VDC. Except Australia. They want 3000 VDC. Why? Who knows. 1500 VDC is more than adequate. It has never caused a problem anywhere else. Not sure why physics works differently in Australia, but their regulations seem to imply that it does. There is probably a reason for it, but without understanding the history you and I will never figure out what it was that led to that regulation.

The only way to genuinely determine what is actually safe and what is not in any given situation is to understand the physics involved. Building codes used in different places have a long, complex history, often due to legal rather then technical issues, and what is required in one country does not always directly translate to another. You can always oversize and over engineer everything. I do that myself on many occasions. But I also understand that resouce conservation is important, and so is my budget. I would encourage everyone to understand the actual issues involved in any purchase, choosing wire size just being one of them, and spend money wisely in a way that doesn't compromise safety.
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Re: I need 20 amps

Post by explorer »

monomial wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:52 pm Australia is possibly not the best example of a country for determining appropriately sized wires.
It is about safety.

If you look at the number of people killed by house fires caused by electrical faults in Cambodia, and compare that with the number of people killed by house fires caused by electrical faults in Australia. In Australia it is very few compared to Cambodia.

If you look at the number of people killed by electrocution in Cambodian homes, and the number of people killed by electrocution in Australian homes. In Australia it is very close to zero.
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Re: I need 20 amps

Post by explorer »

monomial wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:52 pm
monomial wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:42 pm The truth is that 1.5mm cable is the most common because it works for circuits up to 20A in this environment and is basically safe. It is used throughout SE Asia (not just Cambodia) and there are millions of homes that prove its suitability.
Nobody on this forum has ever said to use undersized wires.
Do you believe it is OK to use 1.5mm cable for 20A circuits?
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Anthony's Weiner
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Re: I need 20 amps

Post by Anthony's Weiner »

explorer wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:00 pm
monomial wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:52 pm
monomial wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:42 pm The truth is that 1.5mm cable is the most common because it works for circuits up to 20A in this environment and is basically safe. It is used throughout SE Asia (not just Cambodia) and there are millions of homes that prove its suitability.
Nobody on this forum has ever said to use undersized wires.
Do you believe it is OK to use 1.5mm cable for 20A circuits?
Depending on the installation method used, the 1.5mm cable has a maximum rated capacity of between 14 and 20 amps, so its right on the limit.
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Re: I need 20 amps

Post by explorer »

Anthony's Weiner wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:39 pm Depending on the installation method used, the 1.5mm cable has a maximum rated capacity of between 14 and 20 amps, so its right on the limit.
Can you provide a reference for that?
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Re: I need 20 amps

Post by jovial fucher »

pczz wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:42 pm
explorer wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:30 pm
pczz wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:16 pm What about the other loads like fridge freezer? If you go to low you might find your ice cream melting when you put on aircon and have a shower
No.

If you have an appropriate circuit breaker for the wire, and you draw too much power, the circuit breaker will turn off. So you wont have any power at all. You will need to turn off something, or when you turn it on again, it will just turn off again.

If the wire is too thin for the rating of the circuit breaker, it may heat up, and possibly start a fire.

There is another issue. If you have thin wires over a long distance, there may be voltage drop, which may cause things to not work properly.
I am not sure you are 100% correct but i am no electrician. The fuse will pop if the voltage is too high, not if it is too low. If the cabling is for 20 amps and the electricity coming in is only 16 then everything gets less electric so lights dim, tv crackles and fridge cannot maintain proper temperature.OP says when the aircon is on the water is tepid, so it looks like the available current is being reduced to all devices
For the sake of clarity, When only the hot water is on, on that side of the apartment, it will turn off if it gets too hot, so I take a tepid shower. The AC is on the other meter and is off most of the time. There are circuit breakers on the heaters and the AC.
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Re: I need 20 amps

Post by Duncan »

explorer wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:56 pm
monomial wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:52 pm Australia is possibly not the best example of a country for determining appropriately sized wires.
It is about safety.

If you look at the number of people killed by house fires caused by electrical faults in Cambodia, and compare that with the number of people killed by house fires caused by electrical faults in Australia. In Australia it is very few compared to Cambodia.

If you look at the number of people killed by electrocution in Cambodian homes, and the number of people killed by electrocution in Australian homes. In Australia it is very close to zero.


Can you provide a reference for that ?
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Kammekor
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Re: I need 20 amps

Post by Kammekor »

explorer wrote: Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:24 am
Anthony's Weiner wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:39 pm Depending on the installation method used, the 1.5mm cable has a maximum rated capacity of between 14 and 20 amps, so its right on the limit.
Can you provide a reference for that?
https://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/cablesizes.htm

in the UK the rating is 13-20A depending on how it's installed....
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