epidemiks wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:52 pm So you've never had a work permit, and now want a work permit, but don't want to pay the fine you are liable for, and also don't want to cut a deal via the agent representing you to cut a deal?

Not sure what you expect. Take the chance of getting out with a 50% discount find another agent, or do it yourself and pay whatever you're able to negotiate.

If you've got competent staff, why not send them direct to sort this out?

F the back duty. What Stroppy posted shows how much of a dirty scam it is. Alright if you worked for some poxy western company or likely scamming NGO and could actually get one before around 3 years ago. But most couldn't, even if they tried hard.
Plus they have been charging an illegal double amount for the visa ever since at least 2002. I figure they owe ME back duty.
Plus, the fine is on top of the back duty.

I would have had one three years ago when they first started clamping down on something a normal employee couldn't get on their own, when I worked for one of those terrible puppy- mill schools. But for the fact that they wanted an additional see krook amount of $75 for an 'education licence', which made me extremerly suspicious of not getting the work permit after I had paid for it.
If they had brought the whole process in transparently and didn't allow it to be to used by their own employees or other employers as a way to scam people for thousands of dollars in some cases, I don't think anyone would be complaining.

It's the same as for income tax AFAIK. The government tax collectors used to do deals and pocket the cash. The school I first worked for was one of the few actually taking tax from their employees, BELTEI wasn't, and nor were most of the others. If the government body and its agents were so inefficient/ corrupt in the past, they shouldn't try to push their problem onto others. And when the huge puppy schools weren't paying or collecting from their employees, it is obviously a scam trying to collect back duty and fines for tax until recently.

It is what it is, but don't try and legitimise it for them.

i rate this story 3/5 carrots

Yeah, I agree with Alonzo. We shouldn't have to be the ones paying in retrospect for bureaucratic incompetence. The whole thing is a scam. I'm not gonna complain to the Ministry of Labour about it (I may sweetly apologise if I need to), because why be honest to skeezy crooks who are trying to get your money to over up for their own incompetence? Would you pay a tuktuk driver years later if he didn't get you to your destination, and made out like he was giving you a free ride? In the legal ether of Cambodia, the same principal of fairness applies, but of course doesn't actually happen due to those in power having, well, all the power. People defending the government here need to think about just how much they'd let it get away with.

AndyKK wrote:I would say try to make the time to go to immigration, Or wait for them to come to you. At least then it is all legit.

The MoLVT guy I met, sorted shit out for $400as I posted before. Quiet, private meeting...... legit! Lol!

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PSD-Kiwi wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:26 pm Why is everyone associating Work Permits with the Immigration Dept? They have nothing to do with WP's, it is the MoLVT, and any fines for previous years will be paid to them.

As to the rest of the thread, I've only really skim read it as I'm too tired, will read tomorrow and see if I can offer any useful advice, highly unlikely though.

Apologies PDS. I did deal with the MoLVT, but it was the two local immigration officers whom do work in that department. This was arranged for me with the immigration whom visited my establishment from PP.

StroppyChops wrote:

epidemiks wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:52 pm So you've never had a work permit, and now want a work permit, but don't want to pay the fine you are liable for, and also don't want to cut a deal via the agent representing you to cut a deal?

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. No, wait, no it isn't.

As a business owner and an employer who doesn't take an income (that is, I run a social enterprise) I have not been required to have a WP.

Now I'm teaching for income, I am required to have a WP. I am not currently required to pay a fine for previous years here, in which I did not earn an income.

I'm not sure why this is difficult for you to understand, but carry on mocking...

Not mocking, clarifying.

1. You're going off WP advice from ministry of Immigration, not Labor. It doesn't matter what immigration say, and that's why the lady laughed at you.

2. Regardless of what you say or think, you were supposed to have a work permit under current and past regulations, whether they are, we're, or will be enforced. We all were.

3. Lucky advising you that it's likely your application will come back with a fine for previous years is exactly what I'd expect them to say as your nominated agent. Offering to 'fix' any fine on your behalf at 50%, without you getting out of your chair, seems like a good deal to me.

That's why we use agents, right?

Is it a scam by the agent? Doesn't seem like to to me. Just another example of endemic corruption Cambodia's public service foists on you, I, and every cambodian, and of the vast industries borne out of that corruption.

So, try another agent and see if you get the same offer, get a staff member to deal with it on your behalf, or go yourself.

Jamie_Lambo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:00 am i rate this story 3/5 carrots

I was starting to wonder if I'd need to post an allegorical version for those who need less syllables in their reading.

PSD-Kiwi wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:26 pmWhy is everyone associating Work Permits with the Immigration Dept? They have nothing to do with WP's, it is the MoLVT, and any fines for previous years will be paid to them.

Fully accept that you're right - but oddly it IS Immigration that's dealing with my school on WPs.

epidemiks wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:08 pm1. You're going off WP advice from ministry of Immigration, not Labor. It doesn't matter what immigration say, and that's why the lady laughed at you.

Be honest - you picked up on this about three seconds after reading Kiwi's clarification. Or you'd have commented on it earlier.

StroppyChops wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:18 pm

Jamie_Lambo wrote: ↑Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:00 am i rate this story 3/5 carrots

I was starting to wonder if I'd need to post an allegorical version for those who need less syllables in their reading.

naa ya reet pal, aint nowt wrong wi it me ol' mucker, ha yersen anuva cazza fer yer bovva though mert

StroppyChops wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:21 pm

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote: ↑Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:50 pm I've just glanced over this, but I honestly think you're in the wrong. You complain about the 25-35 for the license. Then just do it yourself. It's $10... If you know it's ten and want to pay ten, don't go see an agent. They're there for your convenience and to make money. Same goes for the WP.

Always happy to be wrong, but you might have misread my post in this instance. I wasn't complaining about the $35 for the license, I happily paid this agent that much initially to do the job for me as I couldn't be bothered doing it myself. My point is that they are now no longer able to do it due to a change in process, and are only looking to refund the $10 that the license actually costs, for me to take to Licensing and do it myself. You might be fine with that, I'm not.

Not sure what your point is on the WP - are you suggesting I go to Immigration and work through the WP application? Would, but literally don't have the time, and so am prepared to pay an agent their cut to do it - but I'm not prepared to be obviously extorted. A deeper reading of my post should clearly show the agent is planning to stiff me for 50% of WP costs for all previous years, unrelated to Immigration. If I have to pay, I have to pay - if I'm being scammed, not so much. Again, your view/experience may vary.

Now that it's been clarified, I understand your frustration regarding the first issue.

However, I still feel you want it both ways on the second issue. Even if Work Permits weren't even available in the past, people and companies have had to get them. Last year I had to pay back several years of backfines despite the government not knowing how long I'd been here (I didn't provide my old passports). You say you could go get your own work permit, but you simply don't have the time...You then complain about being extorted. You can't have it both ways buddy. You're going to see someone for a service. If you think they're overcharging you, use someone else. It's quite simple really. Your view that it wasn't necessary in the past because you were an employer is cute, but we've all faced a harsh reality that's out of our control in the past few years. It's typical bureaucracy, so even if you've just started teaching, it's not surprising they won't care (or talk to each other). Yes, it's unfair, but it's about various different departments/ministries (with different levels of transparency and incompetence) trying to get as much money as they can. You won't be winning many battles there. You can win one or two by being persistent, but you won't win all of them.

^ You won't be winning many battles there. You can win one or two by being persistent, but you won't win all of them.

That is well said.