LEARNER RIDERS

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atst
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Re: LEARNER RIDERS

Post by atst » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:09 am

Forget the science behind it just be careful changing down gears
Enjoy your bike and watch the traffic and everything around you. Go slow
I'm standing up, so I must be straight
What's a poor man do when the blues keep following him around.
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philip.smith
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Re: LEARNER RIDERS

Post by philip.smith » Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:52 am

pczz wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:41 pm
philip.smith wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:21 pm
pczz wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:56 am
philip.smith wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:12 am
atst wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:09 am
Best advice given to me was When changing down gears let the clutch out slowly, you don't want to go over the handle bars.
How is that even possible? You'd be engine braking to fuck and back but it's not possible to go OTB unless you were coming in wayyyy too hot. Either way, when slowing down you should at least be trying to revmatch as you downshift. Squeezing the tank with your legs should also be done, and would also make falling over less likely
Have yoou ever driven a bike? he is talking about changing down. if you do that and drop the clutch back in without reving the engine the appropriate amount the bike will either lockle the back wheel or stop abrubtly, depending on the mismatch between engine speed and road speed. End result you contimue forward at 60kmh, bike has slowed to 20 so over the bars you go. the number of learners i have taught who did not remember to blip the throttle :facepalm:
Yes, for many years. You would not got over the bars from shifting to first from sixth at 60kph, you might feel like you're going to but the bike isn't magically going to defy physics and come to speed drop fast enough to ssnd you flying.

Too many hi-viz uncles who should have hung their jackets up years ago.
FFS go look up hisides on you tube
High side in a straight line from dropping down too many gears?

Have you taken the training wheels of your bike yet?
pczz
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Re: LEARNER RIDERS

Post by pczz » Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:09 pm

philip.smith wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:52 am
pczz wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:41 pm
philip.smith wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:21 pm
pczz wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:56 am
philip.smith wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:12 am


How is that even possible? You'd be engine braking to fuck and back but it's not possible to go OTB unless you were coming in wayyyy too hot. Either way, when slowing down you should at least be trying to revmatch as you downshift. Squeezing the tank with your legs should also be done, and would also make falling over less likely
Have yoou ever driven a bike? he is talking about changing down. if you do that and drop the clutch back in without reving the engine the appropriate amount the bike will either lockle the back wheel or stop abrubtly, depending on the mismatch between engine speed and road speed. End result you contimue forward at 60kmh, bike has slowed to 20 so over the bars you go. the number of learners i have taught who did not remember to blip the throttle :facepalm:
Yes, for many years. You would not got over the bars from shifting to first from sixth at 60kph, you might feel like you're going to but the bike isn't magically going to defy physics and come to speed drop fast enough to ssnd you flying.

Too many hi-viz uncles who should have hung their jackets up years ago.
FFS go look up hisides on you tube
High side in a straight line from dropping down too many gears? You always complete gear changes before you lean in, I hva ebeen riding bikes ofr 45 years, i was trained by the police and I taught new drivers for 5 years

Have you taken the training wheels of your bike yet?
Have you ever changed down more than 1 gear in a straight line? I am guessing yu drive cruisers not sport bikes
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Yerg
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Re: LEARNER RIDERS

Post by Yerg » Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:17 pm

pczz wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:09 pm
philip.smith wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:52 am
pczz wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:41 pm
philip.smith wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:21 pm
pczz wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:56 am

Have yoou ever driven a bike? he is talking about changing down. if you do that and drop the clutch back in without reving the engine the appropriate amount the bike will either lockle the back wheel or stop abrubtly, depending on the mismatch between engine speed and road speed. End result you contimue forward at 60kmh, bike has slowed to 20 so over the bars you go. the number of learners i have taught who did not remember to blip the throttle :facepalm:
Yes, for many years. You would not got over the bars from shifting to first from sixth at 60kph, you might feel like you're going to but the bike isn't magically going to defy physics and come to speed drop fast enough to ssnd you flying.

Too many hi-viz uncles who should have hung their jackets up years ago.
FFS go look up hisides on you tube
High side in a straight line from dropping down too many gears? You always complete gear changes before you lean in, I hva ebeen riding bikes ofr 45 years, i was trained by the police and I taught new drivers for 5 years

Have you taken the training wheels of your bike yet?
Have you ever changed down more than 1 gear in a straight line? I am guessing yu drive cruisers not sport bikes
I've ridden both, and my last bike was a sport bike. I have never dropped more than gear at a time. Never needed to. Why would you ever need to? What possible circumstances are there (for example) to drop from (say) 4th to 2nd? It's simply asking for trouble in the first instance, and reeks of recklessness at the very least. Straight line or bends/corners, it doesn't matter. You're either in the wrong gear and unprepared, or borderline suicidal...
pczz
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Re: LEARNER RIDERS

Post by pczz » Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:21 pm

Yerg wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:17 pm
pczz wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:09 pm
philip.smith wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:52 am
pczz wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:41 pm
philip.smith wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:21 pm


Yes, for many years. You would not got over the bars from shifting to first from sixth at 60kph, you might feel like you're going to but the bike isn't magically going to defy physics and come to speed drop fast enough to ssnd you flying.

Too many hi-viz uncles who should have hung their jackets up years ago.
FFS go look up hisides on you tube
High side in a straight line from dropping down too many gears? You always complete gear changes before you lean in, I hva ebeen riding bikes ofr 45 years, i was trained by the police and I taught new drivers for 5 years

Have you taken the training wheels of your bike yet?
Have you ever changed down more than 1 gear in a straight line? I am guessing yu drive cruisers not sport bikes
I've ridden both, and my last bike was a sport bike. I have never dropped more than gear at a time. Never needed to. Why would you ever need to? What possible circumstances are there (for example) to drop from (say) 4th to 2nd? It's simply asking for trouble in the first instance, and reeks of recklessness at the very least. Straight line or bends/corners, it doesn't matter. You're either in the wrong gear and unprepared, or borderline suicidal...
or a slow rider. Obviously we have different ideas on technique and different techniques and training. lets leave it at that
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Yerg
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Re: LEARNER RIDERS

Post by Yerg » Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:25 pm

pczz wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:21 pm
Yerg wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:17 pm
pczz wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:09 pm
philip.smith wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:52 am
pczz wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:41 pm
FFS go look up hisides on you tube
High side in a straight line from dropping down too many gears? You always complete gear changes before you lean in, I hva ebeen riding bikes ofr 45 years, i was trained by the police and I taught new drivers for 5 years

Have you taken the training wheels of your bike yet?
Have you ever changed down more than 1 gear in a straight line? I am guessing yu drive cruisers not sport bikes
I've ridden both, and my last bike was a sport bike. I have never dropped more than gear at a time. Never needed to. Why would you ever need to? What possible circumstances are there (for example) to drop from (say) 4th to 2nd? It's simply asking for trouble in the first instance, and reeks of recklessness at the very least. Straight line or bends/corners, it doesn't matter. You're either in the wrong gear and unprepared, or borderline suicidal...
or a slow rider. Obviously we have different ideas on technique and different techniques and training. lets leave it at that
More than happy to leave it at that, if we can leave OP to learn to ride safely without borderline dangerous advice. :hattip:
pczz
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Re: LEARNER RIDERS

Post by pczz » Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:34 pm

Yerg wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:25 pm
pczz wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:21 pm
Yerg wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:17 pm
pczz wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:09 pm
philip.smith wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 9:52 am


High side in a straight line from dropping down too many gears? You always complete gear changes before you lean in, I hva ebeen riding bikes ofr 45 years, i was trained by the police and I taught new drivers for 5 years

Have you taken the training wheels of your bike yet?
Have you ever changed down more than 1 gear in a straight line? I am guessing yu drive cruisers not sport bikes
I've ridden both, and my last bike was a sport bike. I have never dropped more than gear at a time. Never needed to. Why would you ever need to? What possible circumstances are there (for example) to drop from (say) 4th to 2nd? It's simply asking for trouble in the first instance, and reeks of recklessness at the very least. Straight line or bends/corners, it doesn't matter. You're either in the wrong gear and unprepared, or borderline suicidal...
or a slow rider. Obviously we have different ideas on technique and different techniques and training. lets leave it at that
More than happy to leave it at that, if we can leave OP to learn to ride safely without borderline dangerous advice. :hattip:
Just out of interest where di you learn to ride? there seems to be a distictly different style between US and europe, based mailny o the fact the US has less roundabout and more straight roads
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Yerg
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Re: LEARNER RIDERS

Post by Yerg » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:39 am

pczz wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:34 pm
Yerg wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:25 pm
pczz wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:21 pm
Yerg wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:17 pm
pczz wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:09 pm

Have you ever changed down more than 1 gear in a straight line? I am guessing yu drive cruisers not sport bikes
I've ridden both, and my last bike was a sport bike. I have never dropped more than gear at a time. Never needed to. Why would you ever need to? What possible circumstances are there (for example) to drop from (say) 4th to 2nd? It's simply asking for trouble in the first instance, and reeks of recklessness at the very least. Straight line or bends/corners, it doesn't matter. You're either in the wrong gear and unprepared, or borderline suicidal...
or a slow rider. Obviously we have different ideas on technique and different techniques and training. lets leave it at that
More than happy to leave it at that, if we can leave OP to learn to ride safely without borderline dangerous advice. :hattip:
Just out of interest where di you learn to ride? there seems to be a distictly different style between US and europe, based mailny o the fact the US has less roundabout and more straight roads
UK first for my bike licence. The rest is down to experience. Riding bikes in the Middle East (no roundabouts but psychotic drivers) taught me more in 8 years, than I learned in 18 years in the UK. (At least UK drivers are aware of and have a respect for bikes.)

Cambodia taught me more about defensive riding than I ever learnt anywhere else.
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AndyKK
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Re: LEARNER RIDERS

Post by AndyKK » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:21 pm

Yerg wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:03 am
pczz wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:58 am
Yerg wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:20 am
pczz wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:14 pm
Yerg wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:22 am


In my experience, you change down too early without balancing the revs, the worst you'll do is lock the rear wheel. Unless of course, the bike is front-wheel-drive?? Deadly in a corner, but less than likely to send you over the bars... Now, if we're talking high-sides and tank-slaps, that's a whole new conversation.

OP, I hope you are enjoying your manual bike. I love them, and had a sweet little KTM while in Cambodia. Enjoy it. Hun-Sen Blvd on a Sunday is a magical ride, just watch out for the crazy cows crossing the damn highway!!
Try downshifting 2 gears at high speed. rear wheel locks and i can guarantee you will be sailing over the bars as the bike goes sideways. Changing down from 40mph twill not do much
And you'd drop two gears why exactly?? After 30'ish years of riding, I don't think I have ever cogged down twice (deliberately or accidentally), as there is simply no reason to do so. I agree that an early (un-balanced) down-shift risks locked rear wheel. I've done it, on more than one amateurish occasion. And I still haven't gone over the bars. Have I lost the arse? Yes. Have I flipped? Never. I'm sorry pal, but I really don't buy what you are saying.

Back on topic, @OP, still happy to ride out with you one day in the future!!
So you havenevver charged into a corner, braked hard and changed down 2 or even 3 gears to hit the powerband on the way out? You only drop 1 gear for corners? Different driving styles obviously
[/[email protected][/mentio@OpenDelta001

If you want to fish for replies, okay, I'll bite. The simple answer is "No" I'm not really sure how to explain 30+ years of riding without having had an accident related to the idiotic decisions that you proscribe. Riding without trying to kill yourself is actually a relatively simple concept. That said, I recall one evening hitting Monument roundabout, and thinking I could make the gap. Turned out, I probably couldn't. I DELIBERATELY dropped 1 cog, which forced a rear lock, but when balanced with the revs, allowed me to slide the bike somewhere I really shouldn't have gone. I've never dropped 2 or 3 gears, because my abilities allowed me to never need to. If you ride like that, then good luck to you. It's your ass, and you decide where to put it. It doesn't make your dick bigger than mine. It just means you choose to ride a different way. Maybe we can ride together too when next in PP. You'll recognise me. I'll be hanging slightly back from you...
@
To be fare pczz is right about multi change down on gears, so much so I Remember it all too well with my 2 strokes, yes I would stand on the anchors approaching a corner at high speed, knowing there is little to no engine braking and tap down the gears keeping in the power band, if a left hander, then heading to the right gutter then a quick flick to the right on the bars, left foot pushing down. The flick puts you down to the left rapidly has your arse goes over to the left following your knee towards the tarmac, the right calf hold all in place as you try keeping the rubber on the road by keeping the bike upright towards exiting with a little weight over the front. I loved keeping them on the boil and screaming. The later years slipper clutches helped 4 strokes in a simpler way. But here you have potholes to worry about more.
Always "hope" but never "expect".
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AndyKK
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Re: LEARNER RIDERS

Post by AndyKK » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:34 pm

Yerg wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:39 am
pczz wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:34 pm
Yerg wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:25 pm
pczz wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:21 pm
Yerg wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:17 pm


I've ridden both, and my last bike was a sport bike. I have never dropped more than gear at a time. Never needed to. Why would you ever need to? What possible circumstances are there (for example) to drop from (say) 4th to 2nd? It's simply asking for trouble in the first instance, and reeks of recklessness at the very least. Straight line or bends/corners, it doesn't matter. You're either in the wrong gear and unprepared, or borderline suicidal...
or a slow rider. Obviously we have different ideas on technique and different techniques and training. lets leave it at that
More than happy to leave it at that, if we can leave OP to learn to ride safely without borderline dangerous advice. :hattip:
Just out of interest where di you learn to ride? there seems to be a distictly different style between US and europe, based mailny o the fact the US has less roundabout and more straight roads
UK first for my bike licence. The rest is down to experience. Riding bikes in the Middle East (no roundabouts but psychotic drivers) taught me more in 8 years, than I learned in 18 years in the UK. (At least UK drivers are aware of and have a respect for bikes.)

Cambodia taught me more about defensive riding than I ever learnt anywhere else.
I can't agree with you more on that answer be careful out there
Always "hope" but never "expect".
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