LEARNER RIDERS

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pczz
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Re: LEARNER RIDERS

Post by pczz » Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:14 pm

Yerg wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:22 am
atst wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:18 am
It was an exaggeration but if you change down gears to quickly the bike pulls up pretty fast remember it's a learning we're advising
In my experience, you change down too early without balancing the revs, the worst you'll do is lock the rear wheel. Unless of course, the bike is front-wheel-drive?? Deadly in a corner, but less than likely to send you over the bars... Now, if we're talking high-sides and tank-slaps, that's a whole new conversation.

OP, I hope you are enjoying your manual bike. I love them, and had a sweet little KTM while in Cambodia. Enjoy it. Hun-Sen Blvd on a Sunday is a magical ride, just watch out for the crazy cows crossing the damn highway!!
Try downshifting 2 gears at high speed. rear wheel locks and i can guarantee you will be sailing over the bars as the bike goes sideways. Changing down from 40mph twill not do much
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philip.smith
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Re: LEARNER RIDERS

Post by philip.smith » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:21 pm

pczz wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:56 am
philip.smith wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:12 am
atst wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:09 am
Best advice given to me was When changing down gears let the clutch out slowly, you don't want to go over the handle bars.
How is that even possible? You'd be engine braking to fuck and back but it's not possible to go OTB unless you were coming in wayyyy too hot. Either way, when slowing down you should at least be trying to revmatch as you downshift. Squeezing the tank with your legs should also be done, and would also make falling over less likely
Have yoou ever driven a bike? he is talking about changing down. if you do that and drop the clutch back in without reving the engine the appropriate amount the bike will either lockle the back wheel or stop abrubtly, depending on the mismatch between engine speed and road speed. End result you contimue forward at 60kmh, bike has slowed to 20 so over the bars you go. the number of learners i have taught who did not remember to blip the throttle :facepalm:
Yes, for many years. You would not got over the bars from shifting to first from sixth at 60kph, you might feel like you're going to but the bike isn't magically going to defy physics and come to speed drop fast enough to ssnd you flying.

Too many hi-viz uncles who should have hung their jackets up years ago.
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AndyKK
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Re: LEARNER RIDERS

Post by AndyKK » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:33 pm

I have had my share of bikes in past years, the ones I like in particular are the two stroke 250cc Japanese pocket rockets and I have had a few road variations. One of my favourites being an 89 hybrid Kawasaki 250 with a top speed of 140mph, light and very flickable with the front wheel lifting with every gear change upwards, last one of this type was an ex-Padgett Yamaha TZ250 that bike accomplished 5th place at the Isle of Man TT. Then Ducati was the last one with full Termignoni carbon race pipes and chipped being tuned by a BSB machinic. I have had my fare share of offs, but over the bars is not normal, I would say manufactures limit the chancers of that happening. But once it did happen to me when a car pulled out in front of me, and I made a sudden stop in the car’s door.
Always "hope" but never "expect".
pczz
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Re: LEARNER RIDERS

Post by pczz » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:41 pm

philip.smith wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:21 pm
pczz wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:56 am
philip.smith wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:12 am
atst wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:09 am
Best advice given to me was When changing down gears let the clutch out slowly, you don't want to go over the handle bars.
How is that even possible? You'd be engine braking to fuck and back but it's not possible to go OTB unless you were coming in wayyyy too hot. Either way, when slowing down you should at least be trying to revmatch as you downshift. Squeezing the tank with your legs should also be done, and would also make falling over less likely
Have yoou ever driven a bike? he is talking about changing down. if you do that and drop the clutch back in without reving the engine the appropriate amount the bike will either lockle the back wheel or stop abrubtly, depending on the mismatch between engine speed and road speed. End result you contimue forward at 60kmh, bike has slowed to 20 so over the bars you go. the number of learners i have taught who did not remember to blip the throttle :facepalm:
Yes, for many years. You would not got over the bars from shifting to first from sixth at 60kph, you might feel like you're going to but the bike isn't magically going to defy physics and come to speed drop fast enough to ssnd you flying.

Too many hi-viz uncles who should have hung their jackets up years ago.
FFS go look up hisides on you tube
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AndyKK
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Re: LEARNER RIDERS

Post by AndyKK » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:50 pm

pczz wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:41 pm
philip.smith wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:21 pm
pczz wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:56 am
philip.smith wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:12 am
atst wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:09 am
Best advice given to me was When changing down gears let the clutch out slowly, you don't want to go over the handle bars.
How is that even possible? You'd be engine braking to fuck and back but it's not possible to go OTB unless you were coming in wayyyy too hot. Either way, when slowing down you should at least be trying to revmatch as you downshift. Squeezing the tank with your legs should also be done, and would also make falling over less likely
Have yoou ever driven a bike? he is talking about changing down. if you do that and drop the clutch back in without reving the engine the appropriate amount the bike will either lockle the back wheel or stop abrubtly, depending on the mismatch between engine speed and road speed. End result you contimue forward at 60kmh, bike has slowed to 20 so over the bars you go. the number of learners i have taught who did not remember to blip the throttle :facepalm:
Yes, for many years. You would not got over the bars from shifting to first from sixth at 60kph, you might feel like you're going to but the bike isn't magically going to defy physics and come to speed drop fast enough to ssnd you flying.

Too many hi-viz uncles who should have hung their jackets up years ago.
FFS go look up hisides on you tube
But in respect pczz most highsides would be on a race track with slick race tyres and lean angles not experienced by many road users.

A highside is caused when the rear wheel loses lateral grip then regains it violently. A highside can be caused if the wheel locks up if the engine seizes or the chain comes off. A highside crash is more dangerous because the rider is usually flung over the bike, often in the path of travel of the bike. If the rider hits something solid and stops, the bike can then hit the rider at speed causing serious injuries. The highside is more violent on the bike, too.

https://www.driverknowledgetests.com/re ... explained/
Always "hope" but never "expect".
pczz
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Re: LEARNER RIDERS

Post by pczz » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:57 pm

Hisides happen at his speed anywhere. You are more likely to see them on a race track because there are camera there. the point is OP says you dont go over handlebars if you change down. no specification as to place or speed. he also specifies it is contrary to the lwas of physice. Hisides prove it can happen with a rear wheel lockup. Now if the OP had said "you cnanot go over the handlebars if you change down at 20mph on a dry day on normal tarmac on a 125cc four stroke" Imght be inclined to agree, but he did not :-)
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Yerg
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Re: LEARNER RIDERS

Post by Yerg » Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:20 am

pczz wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:14 pm
Yerg wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:22 am
atst wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:18 am
It was an exaggeration but if you change down gears to quickly the bike pulls up pretty fast remember it's a learning we're advising
In my experience, you change down too early without balancing the revs, the worst you'll do is lock the rear wheel. Unless of course, the bike is front-wheel-drive?? Deadly in a corner, but less than likely to send you over the bars... Now, if we're talking high-sides and tank-slaps, that's a whole new conversation.

OP, I hope you are enjoying your manual bike. I love them, and had a sweet little KTM while in Cambodia. Enjoy it. Hun-Sen Blvd on a Sunday is a magical ride, just watch out for the crazy cows crossing the damn highway!!
Try downshifting 2 gears at high speed. rear wheel locks and i can guarantee you will be sailing over the bars as the bike goes sideways. Changing down from 40mph twill not do much
And you'd drop two gears why exactly?? After 30'ish years of riding, I don't think I have ever cogged down twice (deliberately or accidentally), as there is simply no reason to do so. I agree that an early (un-balanced) down-shift risks locked rear wheel. I've done it, on more than one amateurish occasion. And I still haven't gone over the bars. Have I lost the arse? Yes. Have I flipped? Never. I'm sorry pal, but I really don't buy what you are saying.

Back on topic, @OP, still happy to ride out with you one day in the future!!
pczz
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Re: LEARNER RIDERS

Post by pczz » Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:58 am

Yerg wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:20 am
pczz wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:14 pm
Yerg wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:22 am
atst wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:18 am
It was an exaggeration but if you change down gears to quickly the bike pulls up pretty fast remember it's a learning we're advising
In my experience, you change down too early without balancing the revs, the worst you'll do is lock the rear wheel. Unless of course, the bike is front-wheel-drive?? Deadly in a corner, but less than likely to send you over the bars... Now, if we're talking high-sides and tank-slaps, that's a whole new conversation.

OP, I hope you are enjoying your manual bike. I love them, and had a sweet little KTM while in Cambodia. Enjoy it. Hun-Sen Blvd on a Sunday is a magical ride, just watch out for the crazy cows crossing the damn highway!!
Try downshifting 2 gears at high speed. rear wheel locks and i can guarantee you will be sailing over the bars as the bike goes sideways. Changing down from 40mph twill not do much
And you'd drop two gears why exactly?? After 30'ish years of riding, I don't think I have ever cogged down twice (deliberately or accidentally), as there is simply no reason to do so. I agree that an early (un-balanced) down-shift risks locked rear wheel. I've done it, on more than one amateurish occasion. And I still haven't gone over the bars. Have I lost the arse? Yes. Have I flipped? Never. I'm sorry pal, but I really don't buy what you are saying.

Back on topic, @OP, still happy to ride out with you one day in the future!!
So you havenevver charged into a corner, braked hard and changed down 2 or even 3 gears to hit the powerband on the way out? You only drop 1 gear for corners? Different driving styles obviously
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Yerg
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Re: LEARNER RIDERS

Post by Yerg » Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:03 am

pczz wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:58 am
Yerg wrote:
Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:20 am
pczz wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:14 pm
Yerg wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:22 am
atst wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 11:18 am
It was an exaggeration but if you change down gears to quickly the bike pulls up pretty fast remember it's a learning we're advising
In my experience, you change down too early without balancing the revs, the worst you'll do is lock the rear wheel. Unless of course, the bike is front-wheel-drive?? Deadly in a corner, but less than likely to send you over the bars... Now, if we're talking high-sides and tank-slaps, that's a whole new conversation.

OP, I hope you are enjoying your manual bike. I love them, and had a sweet little KTM while in Cambodia. Enjoy it. Hun-Sen Blvd on a Sunday is a magical ride, just watch out for the crazy cows crossing the damn highway!!
Try downshifting 2 gears at high speed. rear wheel locks and i can guarantee you will be sailing over the bars as the bike goes sideways. Changing down from 40mph twill not do much
And you'd drop two gears why exactly?? After 30'ish years of riding, I don't think I have ever cogged down twice (deliberately or accidentally), as there is simply no reason to do so. I agree that an early (un-balanced) down-shift risks locked rear wheel. I've done it, on more than one amateurish occasion. And I still haven't gone over the bars. Have I lost the arse? Yes. Have I flipped? Never. I'm sorry pal, but I really don't buy what you are saying.

Back on topic, @OP, still happy to ride out with you one day in the future!!
So you havenevver charged into a corner, braked hard and changed down 2 or even 3 gears to hit the powerband on the way out? You only drop 1 gear for corners? Different driving styles obviously
[/quo@OpenDelta001[/mentio@OpenDelta001

If you want to fish for replies, okay, I'll bite. The simple answer is "No" I'm not really sure how to explain 30+ years of riding without having had an accident related to the idiotic decisions that you proscribe. Riding without trying to kill yourself is actually a relatively simple concept. That said, I recall one evening hitting Monument roundabout, and thinking I could make the gap. Turned out, I probably couldn't. I DELIBERATELY dropped 1 cog, which forced a rear lock, but when balanced with the revs, allowed me to slide the bike somewhere I really shouldn't have gone. I've never dropped 2 or 3 gears, because my abilities allowed me to never need to. If you ride like that, then good luck to you. It's your ass, and you decide where to put it. It doesn't make your dick bigger than mine. It just means you choose to ride a different way. Maybe we can ride together too when next in PP. You'll recognise me. I'll be hanging slightly back from you...
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fazur
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Re: LEARNER RIDERS

Post by fazur » Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:02 am

I'm not sure I would want to ride a motorcycle in Cambodia, let alone learn to ride one.
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