Username Taken wrote:

Samouth wrote:

John Bingham wrote:

prahkeitouj wrote:I think 1 is ok for me and I always guide some people how to find what they want to find in the map. If we want to read the world map, we have to know the direction of the map , continents then big countries. :p
For me 2,3 and 4 yeah , I'm poor in them. I fail Chemistry and Biology subjects, but I could pass my Bac II. Lucky me!!
I think many people know about direction but I don't know it at all besides I'm at my house. So don't talk about direction to me, otherwise I'll get lose.

It's not all that difficult. Nearly all maps have a basic format. If there is writing on the map, check it is the right side up. The left side of the writing will be west. The right side will be east. Up will be north, down will be south. Nearly all the streets in Phnom Penh run in a general North-South direction, for example Monivong, or East- West, for example Russian Boulevard.

If you are standing on the ground, think about which direction the sun comes up- this is East. Where it goes down is West. From these two directions you should be able to figure out the others.

I don't know how people manage without knowing basic directions, they are one of the first things I try to figure out when I get somewhere. It's pretty lame for anyone in the 21st century to make excuses and say they can't tell directions.

You can do an experiment John, get 10 Cambodian both local of PP and those from the provinces and ask them if they know the direction in Phnom Penh.

I think John was trying to give you some good advice there. And, it's very simple.
Let's say that we are at Phsar Thmei. I know that if I head north, I will come to Calmette hospital.
If I head south, I can get to Sihanouk Boulevarde.
East will always take me to the river.
West can get me to the airport, and southwest will get me to Steung Meanchey, etc.

John was saying that if you know where North, South, East, West are, you can find your way around easily.

i know and i appreciate it, but i just wanted to make it clear. What you guys think is easy sometime it is not that easy for us.

great pictures samouth, id love to go round visiting all the remote villages like that, take me take me haha

Samouth wrote:

TheGrinchSR wrote:I used to live in China and my wife had lived in the city for nearly 20 years before I moved there. She would ask me for directions to places rather than the other way round. Why? Mainly because until she met me, she never ventured past the end of the road near her family's home. This is in contrast to me, who went and explored as many places of possible interest as possible (at least until I concluded that there were very few places of interest at all). This despite the fact that we met in Dubai when she was working for a Chinese business out there. She would travel the world but not the city she lived in.

I later found out that this was true for an awful lot of Chinese folks. They barely leave the street they live on. I suspect that might be true here too - if you don't travel about much, you never get a sense of direction.

I think people here in Phnom Penh do go around the city a lot, but the thing is that they don't know the direction of or location the place. If you just tell them the name of the place, they do can find it for sure.

You are correct about not knowing how to read maps. It is something that is taught rather than naturally acquired, map reading that is. Example- I can tell a moto-dop in Khmer "take me to St. 172 and Norodom" and they are typically confused. I can even show some a map on Google maps on my phone with a dot of us, no idea. But if I say, take me to Wat Oumalom" they know. Landmarks, not Street level directions.

juansweetpotato wrote:The point as I see it is no maps in schools. How cheap would it be?

My school has poster maps all over and a globe in the library which I use. I for sure want to teach the kids that there is a big world out there and they can get the fuck out of Cambodia if they work hard. If they so choose. Whatever floats your boat...

Sir_Quality_U_Feel wrote:

juansweetpotato wrote:The point as I see it is no maps in schools. How cheap would it be?

My school has poster maps all over and a globe in the library which I use. I for sure want to teach the kids that there is a big world out there and they can get the fuck out of Cambodia if they work hard. If they so choose. Whatever floats your boat...

SQUF, as you might have been living here long enough, you might have learned about the reasons that most of Cambodians don't travel abroad, if they did, they wouldn't go by their own. They would go by tour agent like a organised tour.

Talking about having map at school, i guess the school you are teaching is absolutely a private school.

Jamie_Lambo wrote:great pictures samouth, id love to go round visiting all the remote villages like that, take me take me haha

if you don't afraid of landmine, you can go and visit that village. They didn't tell me that there were so many landmines that were not cleared out. If they told me, i would refused to go there. Two weeks after i arrived Phnom Penh, there was a landmine explosion there killed 5 people. It was actually buried under the route we used to go to the village. I was lucky.

Anchor Moy wrote:Weak point for me: it is difficult for Cambodians to admit that they are wrong or that they don't know something - it comes back to face again I guess. On the one hand, it is quite endearing that people want to be helpful even if they don't know the answer, but it can be annoying when you ask someone "Can you fix this ?" and they say yes even if they haven't got a clue. Also dangerous when fixing electrical wiring.
What about you Samouth, will you admit it when you don't know the answer to a question ?

Tuk tuk jockeys know how to get everyplace and they'll happily drive off in the wrong direction without a care in the world. They see the most important aspect of the job is to get you in not to get you there. Just as I've found with taxi drivers in Thailand, the worst thing to do is show them a map. This causes their brains to crash & you have to wait for the reset.

Yeah the lack of basic map-reading skills is really astounding. Geography isn't always a strong point in many western countries as well, but I suppose at least most people know where "large/important" countries are and are able to read maps.

I knew how to read maps from a very young age, and I recall being taught map reading both in scouts and in 7th grade geography. What annoys me is seeing "scouts" in Cambodia doing stupid stuff like trying to make people obey traffic rules. I'm surprised the World Scouting Association (or whatever it's called) allows them to use their badge. Scouting is where essential skills such as map reading should be taught (along with school, obviously). Instead organizations such as scouts and the Red Cross are used as semi-propaganda machines. Back when I first came here, I often thought I should volunteer my time to teach students/scouts some skills. I could easily design lesson plans teaching basic map-reading, location finding, taking bearings with a compass and so on. Not only is it fun, it's also useful in everyday situations. It's not like more advanced skills such as magnetic declination are needed, just the basics.
It really makes your directions 800% clearer. It always drives me nuts when Cambodians say vague stuff like: "I'm near Wat Lanka", "My house is by Heng Ly market" or "I'm outside Olympic market"... WHICH SIDE?!?!

I'm constantly in the countryside, and people are always amazed and ask me if I'm afraid, how I don't get lost and so on... They know the main roads, but not being able to read maps, they don't know of any shortcuts. Just this week I was in Stung Treng/Preah Vihear visiting a village I hasn't been to in several years (the old Siem Pang-Wunsai Sihanouk smuggling trail). Up there, Laos is spoken more than Khmer and the kids have to travel quite far to get to the nearest school. I also suspect this lack of confidence with direction is a reason many Cambodians feel really scared about travelling abroad. I would also find it daunting if I didn't know how to orient myself well in a foreign environment. I've always thought it should be a priority in the national curriculum. As for those schools you mention, it's not really surprising. It looks like they're mainly illegal loggers, new arrivals from other provinces, or logging for some bong-thom's new plantation... You can't really expect the government to build a school in a place like this:


The government is actually pretty good at building lots of schools. You need to remember that building a new school which will only be attended by 30 students (of different ages) is a total waste. That's why that tiny village in Stung Treng doesn't have a school nearby. The country doesn't really need that many more schools, what it needs to change is teacher training, the curriculum and facilities. A friend of mine works in education and sometimes travels to remote schools to assess government school needs. While the teachers are often "not that great" to put it nicely, some of them put a great deal of effort and pour their heart into their work. They do what they can with the tools given to them, and we all know that isn't much. Some schools have no electricity and most don't even have fans. Teachers have no modern learning tools at their disposal (audio equipment is stolen, no projectors etc). But even in remote places, I've seen student books filled with basic geometry and maths, which I find encouraging.

John Bingham wrote:I don't know how people manage without knowing basic directions, they are one of the first things I try to figure out when I get somewhere. It's pretty lame for anyone in the 21st century to make excuses and say they can't tell directions.

I semi-agree.

Samouth wrote:i know and i appreciate it, but i just wanted to make it clear. What you guys think is easy sometime it is not that easy for us.

While I agree that it's something that is taught and Cambodians shouldn't be blamed for their lack of geography/map-reading knowledge, you could at least make an effort to better yourself. You're lucky enough to speak/read English and have access to the internet, which is essentially the biggest library the world has ever seen. That giant library is right at your fingertips. Most of your fellow countrymen that your visited in Odor Meanchey don't have the means to get on the internet. You on the other hand can choose to use it for something other than YouTube or Facebook. There are probably tons of online map-reading tutorials which you could look at to learn the basics of contour lines, directions, scales and so forth.

John Bingham wrote:

prahkeitouj wrote:I think 1 is ok for me and I always guide some people how to find what they want to find in the map. If we want to read the world map, we have to know the direction of the map , continents then big countries. :p
For me 2,3 and 4 yeah , I'm poor in them. I fail Chemistry and Biology subjects, but I could pass my Bac II. Lucky me!!
I think many people know about direction but I don't know it at all besides I'm at my house. So don't talk about direction to me, otherwise I'll get lose.

It's not all that difficult. Nearly all maps have a basic format. If there is writing on the map, check it is the right side up. The left side of the writing will be west. The right side will be east. Up will be north, down will be south. Nearly all the streets in Phnom Penh run in a general North-South direction, for example Monivong, or East- West, for example Russian Boulevard.

If you are standing on the ground, think about which direction the sun comes up- this is East. Where it goes down is West. From these two directions you should be able to figure out the others.

I don't know how people manage without knowing basic directions, they are one of the first things I try to figure out when I get somewhere. It's pretty lame for anyone in the 21st century to make excuses and say they can't tell directions.

We were born here so we know the places by going there or some people took us there and we can remember it by reading the signs. But barangs come here and use the map to find the ways. I think like when I went to abroad, I always bring the map with me. So I could know the ways and directions by looking at the map.

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote:Yeah the lack of basic map-reading skills is really astounding. Geography isn't always a strong point in many western countries as well, but I suppose at least most people know where "large/important" countries are and are able to read maps.

I knew how to read maps from a very young age, and I recall being taught map reading both in scouts and in 7th grade geography. What annoys me is seeing "scouts" in Cambodia doing stupid stuff like trying to make people obey traffic rules. I'm surprised the World Scouting Association (or whatever it's called) allows them to use their badge. Scouting is where essential skills such as map reading should be taught (along with school, obviously). Instead organizations such as scouts and the Red Cross are used as semi-propaganda machines. Back when I first came here, I often thought I should volunteer my time to teach students/scouts some skills. I could easily design lesson plans teaching basic map-reading, location finding, taking bearings with a compass and so on. Not only is it fun, it's also useful in everyday situations. It's not like more advanced skills such as magnetic declination are needed, just the basics.
It really makes your directions 800% clearer. It always drives me nuts when Cambodians say vague stuff like: "I'm near Wat Lanka", "My house is by Heng Ly market" or "I'm outside Olympic market"... WHICH SIDE?!?!

I'm constantly in the countryside, and people are always amazed and ask me if I'm afraid, how I don't get lost and so on... They know the main roads, but not being able to read maps, they don't know of any shortcuts. Just this week I was in Stung Treng/Preah Vihear visiting a village I hasn't been to in several years (the old Siem Pang-Wunsai Sihanouk smuggling trail). Up there, Laos is spoken more than Khmer and the kids have to travel quite far to get to the nearest school. I also suspect this lack of confidence with direction is a reason many Cambodians feel really scared about travelling abroad. I would also find it daunting if I didn't know how to orient myself well in a foreign environment. I've always thought it should be a priority in the national curriculum. As for those schools you mention, it's not really surprising. It looks like they're mainly illegal loggers, new arrivals from other provinces, or logging for some bong-thom's new plantation... You can't really expect the government to build a school in a place like this:


The government is actually pretty good at building lots of schools. You need to remember that building a new school which will only be attended by 30 students (of different ages) is a total waste. That's why that tiny village in Stung Treng doesn't have a school nearby. The country doesn't really need that many more schools, what it needs to change is teacher training, the curriculum and facilities. A friend of mine works in education and sometimes travels to remote schools to assess government school needs. While the teachers are often "not that great" to put it nicely, some of them put a great deal of effort and pour their heart into their work. They do what they can with the tools given to them, and we all know that isn't much. Some schools have no electricity and most don't even have fans. Teachers have no modern learning tools at their disposal (audio equipment is stolen, no projectors etc). But even in remote places, I've seen student books filled with basic geometry and maths, which I find encouraging.

John Bingham wrote:I don't know how people manage without knowing basic directions, they are one of the first things I try to figure out when I get somewhere. It's pretty lame for anyone in the 21st century to make excuses and say they can't tell directions.

I semi-agree.

Samouth wrote:i know and i appreciate it, but i just wanted to make it clear. What you guys think is easy sometime it is not that easy for us.

While I agree that it's something that is taught and Cambodians shouldn't be blamed for their lack of geography/map-reading knowledge, you could at least make an effort to better yourself. You're lucky enough to speak/read English and have access to the internet, which is essentially the biggest library the world has ever seen. That giant library is right at your fingertips. Most of your fellow countrymen that your visited in Odor Meanchey don't have the means to get on the internet. You on the other hand can choose to use it for something other than YouTube or Facebook. There are probably tons of online map-reading tutorials which you could look at to learn the basics of contour lines, directions, scales and so forth.

You are right. Most of them moved from other provinces but not all, because back in their home provinces, they have not farming field to grow rice and other vegetables. After all the landmines were cleared out, there were so many farming fields available, so the government decided to give it away to people, that's why many people have come to live that remote areas. However, as i have interviewed some of them even though they were living in their home provinces, they would not still be able to study, as there is no school too. It is really sad for Cambodia since education is not available or reached to everyone throughout the country.

I spent too much time on Facebook and Youtube. I really like these two website. They are both entertaining and educational. I learned more from Facebook and Youtube than reading books.