Hotdigr wrote:Faith has been organised as religion and dogma has existed pretty much since humanity has been able to think rationally. Religion of any sort has always been a way to both quell the fear of the masses and thus control the masses. Fear is a very powerful and irrational emotion and irrationaliy eventually leads to anarchy and lets face it, anarchy isn't a good life for anyone. Much as I ( Yes dog , I'm giving MY opinion here) hate religion, I can also understand the need for it - to keep the sheep from panicking and to keep some control and order in the world.

Nice perspective, Hotdigr.

Stroppy, no offence mate, but perhaps you could have worded your heading a little less confrontationaly?

Joon wrote:

dagenham wrote:All religions are intellectually weak.

Faith is a big black hole that can filled with any personal interpretation, which than then can used to rationalize any behavior.

Religious conflict, along with territory issues, constitute the basis for all large scale slaughter and maiming between humans.

Pan-humanism is the way to go. Forget all those ridiculous stories, parables and commandments.

Lynch all the arrogant people who work toward any kind of "conversion" of fellow human beings.

Wake up, fellow humans and recognize that life is what you see in front of you - make the most of it whilst you are here.

I'm somewhat inclined towards Dag's position but I believe that religious/spiritual faiths are good and have potential for bringing about the best in people.
It's when the faith gets organized as religions and dogmata are established and upheld by a self-selected few that things go downhill in my view, enabling the emergence and strengthening of radical and extremist interpretations.

Dearest Joon...Humanism is as effective as any faith-based system and "has [sic] potential for bringing about the best in people."

In fact, the "leap of faith" in Humanism is that we are all equal and deserve the same respect and, support and love from our fellow species.

Who needs "alleged divine texts" and "moral guidelines" and "unveiled direct threats" to act towards others as you would have them act toward you?

God-heads are an artificial construct for mostly uneducated people, to help them through the day. If (and this is never, ever the case) people were good and true Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Animists, etc... there would be no need for any organizations or "holy books" or "preachers" or (especially the pernicious, evil, predatory) missionaries.

As it is (and has always been) the negative and brutal consequences of organized religions far outweigh the beneficial and mutually supportive ones.

Free the mind of laughable improbable dogma and face your own customized reality. Life is simply what you make it...

albeit with a massive dose of luck thrown in for fully realizing one's supposed "potential"...i.e. male, WASP, 1st world, opportunities, resources, education, stability, good health, etc...

Hotdigr wrote:Stroppy, no offence mate, but perhaps you could have worded your heading a little less confrontationaly?

Yeah, you're probably right, but it's taken directly from the linked article. I hear you, though.

dagenham wrote:blah blah blah...

Good to see you're awake, brother dagenham. I was wondering if you'd show.

StroppyChops wrote:

dagenham wrote:blah blah blah...

Good to see you're awake, brother dagenham. I was wondering if you'd show.

You're such the obvious deflated windbag these days...pedaling that crap Missionary claptrap by initiating "spiritual discussions"...

we should all be virulently anti-Christian and anti-Muslim and anti-all that crap...

you're losing the "aw shucks, I'm a regular fool" schtick, Brother...

dagenham wrote:

StroppyChops wrote:

dagenham wrote:blah blah blah...

Good to see you're awake, brother dagenham. I was wondering if you'd show.

You're such the obvious deflated windbag these days...pedaling that crap Missionary claptrap by initiating "spiritual discussions"...

we should all be virulently anti-Christian and anti-Muslim and anti-all that crap...

you're losing the "aw shucks, I'm a regular fool" schtick, Brother...

Bless you, mate.

Edit: An article in Psychiatric Times you might be interested in, it will give you some new phrases and rebuttals to freshen up the routine -
"Neurotheology: Are We Hardwired for God?"
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/article ... dwired-god

I actually have a theory on the impact of a more secular generation(s) vs an increase in the amount of acts done seemingly without conscience like mass shootings/etc.

As a society (and this is speaking from a purely america/christianity perspective) there had long been a sort of secondary enforced set of social norms and taboos beyond the ones set down by secular law. the reason i see them as having been beneficial is that they created a set of morality laws in which the punishment for a violation was not escaped by the simple act of death. the concept that one could be punished in the afterlife as well as life provided no "i'll do this and then die, and it will be over" escape hatch for immoral acts. correlate this with the increase in mass shootings and the like, with people always opting for said escape hatch, because their now atheistic world view provides no punishment in that situation (presuming they've reached a point that denial of life is no longer seen as a punishment), and a lack of religion has become severely socially damaging.

obviously it wouldn't apply to those who were convinced they were already "damned beyond salvation" or those who believed they were "on a mission from god" in their actions... and this is how so many atrocities in the name of religion have occurred, and continue to do so. but those are the extremes and what we see now are not those extremist cases, but the "middle" ground type of individuals for whom some faith in an invisible sky man that would be waiting on the other side of the veil to bitch slap them for what they did might have held their hand and save countless lives.

i'm not saying religions was the answer... more like a bandaid, but one that worked pretty well. and while i think taking it out of society is not a bad idea at all, it needs SOMETHING to replace it. some concept that prevents the easy escape of death from the consequences of ones actions. until that something is discovered, i think religion has a very good place in society... so long as it's properly applied to the masses and not abused by those who seek power for power's sake.

So if I may paraphrase you DO ( that's code again mate!) you are talking about people that have a conscience. Unfortunately, many don't and that imo is why religion was invented. Not that it has really worked in the way it was supposed to mind you, I honestly don't think people like ....( fill in your blanks) really gave a shit about punishment in the afterlife unfortunately.