Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam?

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Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Post by dagenham » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:09 pm

OrangeDragon wrote:
The Add Jay wrote:You should have the right to say anything. Im sick of this PC bullshit. Thank God Im an American....idfk how you guys in Europe and Australia function for not being allowed to speak.
Hate speech is not protected under free speech.
Classic. So no one can ever say that they hate:

a) Paedophiles
b) Mass Murderers
c) Nazis
d) Rapists

Everyone hates all the above (unless you're one of 'em, eh?)

Bullshit, OD...there is "hate speech" and then there is "hate speech" - usually it is prohibited when it incites "action" or violence...

I did not even come close to any definition of "hate speech"...you just seem to have a "bromance" with SC, which is fine by me...

By the way, thanks for restoring my posting ability..
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Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Post by Joker Poker » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:12 pm

Deja-vu

There's a problem in the Matrix...
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Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Post by Dara » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:16 pm

So where is the weeny OP ?
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Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Post by LTO » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:19 pm

OrangeDragon wrote:
The Add Jay wrote:You should have the right to say anything. Im sick of this PC bullshit. Thank God Im an American....idfk how you guys in Europe and Australia function for not being allowed to speak.
Hate speech is not protected under free speech.
Yup. Lots of speech isn't protected under the Constitution. As they say 'you can't yell fire in a crowded theatre.' And this isn't even a government. It's a privately owned forum.
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Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Post by Rain Dog » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:20 pm

Joker Poker wrote:Deja-vu

There's a problem in the Matrix...
haha -- it's true for those unfortunately subjected to the threads on both forums -- but since OD replied to me here i wanted to express my POV here.

A bit like the movie Groundhog Day

But as LTO stated this banning debate does have a feeling of De Ja Vu to it --- or as another poster said, we have come full circle on the complaints about preferential treatment o the two forums.

Hopefully all that was needed to be said has been now.
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Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Post by Dara » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:24 pm

Nothing has been said until the apologies are in place.
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Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Post by Joker Poker » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:28 pm

Well, I'm sorry that a potentially thought provoking thread has turned into such a morass.
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OZ is on the cusp of turning into...

Post by dagenham » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:31 pm

an Islamic State according to our most prolific and beloved poster (quoted in entirety in context):
StroppyChops wrote:
Rain Dog wrote:
StroppyChops wrote: Again, these are all your words. ..........
Sigh. It doesn't need to change. That's my point.
So set aside personal attacks and accusations thereof now.
How about you stop stamping your little foot there, tiger, and stop telling me what to do or not do. Hmmkay?
You posted a Muslim bashing forum debate with all the usual red herrings of creeping shariah and Islam teaches wife beating blah blah blah. Your thread title pits Christians against Muslims
Yeah, no. I posted a thread about anti-Christianism, and asking if this trend is making 'us' (western society) pro-Islam. It was a question of causality, and deliberately opened a discussion on differing views. YOU added the rest of the words.
Your follow up with comments but keep saying these are "my words" not yours when i cite you. So to be precise --- here is your exact quote:
"Choose today whether you want Australia to identify as being Christian or Muslim." You cannot do nothing, if you believe you're choosing the none-of-the-above option, you're choosing a Muslim nation."
Oh look, you CAN do it. Well done. Although you're cherry-picking to suit yourself.

To be precise --- HERE is my exact quote, in context:
StroppyChops wrote:This is of interest to me because when secular friends in Australia tell me that Australia doesn't need to be one religion or another, I'm usually more direct and forthright than they're used to me being. I tell them pretty straight, "Choose today whether you want Australia to identify as being Christian or Muslim." You cannot do nothing, if you believe you're choosing the none-of-the-above option, you're choosing a Muslim nation." Exactly as happened in KL a few years ago, which was previously an amicably three-religion state.
Rain Dog wrote:The latter part (emphasis mine) is a call to action --- to use your words, doing nothing means choosing a Muslim nation.
Indeed. It's my view that it does mean that. It's what I see happening in Australia, as happened (and I stated in my OP but you chose to ignore) in KL some years ago. KL had it quite nicely balanced - three major religions in near-harmony. That did not change in just two years by population drift.
So you are insisting on a "for us or against us" choice ---- I am curious as to what the specifics are as to the "choice" you want people to make if a "Christian Nation" is your desired outcome. What are the implications? Be specific. You want people to choose Christian Australia against the default option of the threat of Muslim Australia --- what exactly does this mean in practice? How should people indicate or express this conscious choice?
If you dropped the attitude and wiped the foam from your mouth, this would actually be the basis for a constructive, coherent discussion. I'll pretend it was a genuinely curious question rather than your latest iteration of right-fight, and answer as such.

Australians are currently debating religion in schools, the place of God in Australian culture, and whether to keep mentions of God in the articles of the nation. Politics are sensitive to a politician's professed religion or absence thereof. Parent groups are complaining (in my first-hand experience) that Christmas and Easter can no longer be mentioned in school, although Ramadan is widely taught to show that we're sensitive to 'new cultures' in Australia.

(White man's) Australia was founded as a Christian colony, and still calls itself a Christian nation in the Commonwealth. I'm a Christian, and I like Australia professing itself to be a Christian country - which does not make me either xenophobic or Islamophobic. I like that as a Christian nation any Australian is free to worship any or no diety as they see fit, including Allah, subject to that worship not imposing on the human rights of others. Possibly more than any other nation, Australians (including me) will fight for a fellow man's right to worship a different god or no god. I'm proud of that and I don't apologise for any of it - not to you, not to anybody.

So 'specifically' would does my 'call to arms' look like? Simply consider the question in the title. We (in my case Australians, but I imagine this might apply to a number of western nations) are so busy being proud of how anti-Christian we are. Great. That's an individual choice that becomes a collective one at the national level, and inevitably contributes to the shaping of the nation. Consider the question further. If we become anti-Christian, do we inevitably become pro-Islam, as this seems to be a trend in other countries.

Have I denegrated Islam or Muslims in this thread? No. Am I saying that an Islamic Australia would be a bad thing to be avoided? No - but I did intend that if Australians continue to actively pursue a negative stance towards it's current national formal religion, it's almost certain that the religion will change to Islam.

Bashing religions is as much a national past time in Australia as it is here, although I think expats have a broader and more understanding view of different religions than your average Aussie bogan does. Christianity is practiced separate to state in Australia. Islam is never practiced in isolation to nation, it cannot be by it's own definition. That's just a statement of fact, it's not a judgement on my part. I personally don't want Australia to be an Islamic state, and I'm prepared to say it. I like the status quo. If Aussies like the status quo, they need to consider their participation in the anti-Christianity campaigns that are currently rolling through Australia. I don't know where you're from, maybe it's the same. Maybe not.
OrangeDragon wrote:That "seems" the be the argument he's making... that doing nothing will inevitably be standing by while they are doing something.
Exactly this.
Though I do wonder why it has to be 2 choices, and not leave a 3rd "Secular nation, with multiple religions practiced freely by citizens" as an option.
This is the status quo - and the status quo seems to be changing. The intent of my question was 'is the rise of anti-Christianism upsetting that balance?'
So...the evidence for his alarmist fear-mongering "rant"?

a) OZ is 2.2% Muslim an 2.5% Buddhists so...maybe it's turning Buddhist? Very tiny numbers indeed, eh?

b) There is not one Muslim politician of note with any real power presently in OZ

c) There is not one Muslim "oligarch" with any real financial/media influence power of note (i.e. Murdoch, Rinehart, Packer, et al)

This is "irrefutable" proof (for Ms. Joon) of the mindless single purpose zeal of the Christian cult missionary run amok with absolutely no evidence of the terrifying Islamist wave imminently approaching OZ...
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Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Post by Rain Dog » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:32 pm

Joker Poker wrote:Well, I'm sorry that a potentially thought provoking thread has turned into such a morass.
me too.
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Re: Sunday: Are we so anti-Christian we're turning pro-Islam

Post by OrangeDragon » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:35 pm

Merged the new thread dengaham made with the one that already existed on the subject, and which he quoted his original post from. And this is exactly the kind of shit i was talking about that lead to your original ban dengaham... do I need to use caps for you to understand it?
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