Is CEO Repeating The Mistakes of That Other Site

If you have something so weird, strange or off-topic to post and think it doesn't belong in any other forum; you're probably right. Please put all your gormless, half-baked, inane, glaikit ideas in here. This might also be a place where we throw threads that appear elsewhere that don't belong ANYWHERE end up, instead of having to flush them. FORUM RULES STILL APPLY.
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Re: Is CEO Repeating The Mistakes of That Other Site

Postby General Mackevili » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:17 pm

Rain Dog wrote:... having a "flying chicken" posting Threads like "Are Chinese Good Fuckers" (Your Newest thread on General Chatter), won't get it done.
LoL, that definitely belongs in the Asinine Arena, thx.

[Scurries off to go move it]
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Re: Is CEO Repeating The Mistakes of That Other Site

Postby Rain Dog » Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:27 pm

General Mackevili wrote:
Rain Dog wrote:
I agree --- you guys have given them a serious wake-up call. Now they have raised their game a bit --- are you going to follow? Just being a places for disgruntled ex-K440s to vent and having a "flying chicken" posting Threads like "Are Chinese Good Fuckers" (Your Newest thread on General Chatter), won't get it done. You guys actually have a big opportunity here --- but if just evolves into another "inside joke" forum you will not go far. Thus my point about Content and not just post count. Believe me, I know ---- I have been through these things before.
I agree. Even in the span of only a month we've gotten pretty far away from being a "protest site."

Thanks to our members for that. Kudos. Even this thread has been moved to the Asinine Arena.

It was also interesting to see them lock the CEO thread (for whatever reason). That kind of showed that unnecessary censorship is still in play over there. Oh well. Their site.
Hmmmm --- a lot of point's in your two posts plus Joon's (I'll just +1 hehe)

1) I am not being critical at all of your site. You guys have done a great job in a very short period of time. I also agree that the K440 bashing has died out a bit over the last three weeks. They probably snipe at you from there, as much or more as people snipe at them from here. In fact I think this thread has been balanced enough that it does not belong in the Asinine Area as it largely about improving your site rather than bashing theirs.

2) I just caution, particularly in reply to ODs comments about post count being the lifeblood of a forum. This is a myth; a fallacy -- much like a company that only looks at daily earnings and has no plan or vision. The lifeblood of a forum is it's intangibles (typically it's reputation which is driven by it's content and the QUALITY of it's user base). KIR mentioned intangibles in his selling thread ---- but I think he got some cold water in his face when he realized that K440 's intangibles are not nearly what he thought they were. I know because I briefly considered looking at it myself (never inquired though)-- looking for investment opportunities, something to do with my time, and having experience in running forums. But after checking around, the impression is that people familiar with it found it to be too closed and hostile; and people not really familiar with it associated it as a sex tourist site (not sure why - maybe due to old history). In short it has negative intangibles other than awareness, SEO presence, and a large (but alienated) user base. He would be crazy to sell it now because he has huge work to do on it's reputation and image. In addition you guys represent an immediate short term threat to advertising revenues.

3) As to CEO you guys have quickly capitalized on their major weakness. You actually are FRIENDLY and treat your posters RESPECTFULLY. You also do a great job of avoiding the more mean-spirited aspects of their site like ridiculing the recently deceased. The issue is that you need more than "Friendliness" to sustain a forum. Otherwise you can just start an "I-Hate-K440" facebook group and be done with it. Forums require content in addition to personality. If it is allowed to be just an inside-joke, "what did you have for lunch today" place --- you will have a nice little community but will not get many new users or grow. You need content for that. Your competition is upping their game in this area. Hell I even posted on the taboo subject of cost of supporting a girlfriend there --- and rather than get flamed I got some very good replies from multiple posters.

4) Censorship -- in my own opinion K-440 does not censor content that much. Most of their censorship is ego-driven, knee jerk, displays of power. To be fair I cannot remember any thread or poster censored for content (except for forum criticisms). To that end I give you credit, because I am pretty sure you won't lock this thread even though i am offering some constructive criticism (unlike what happened on K440). That said, a little bit of censorship is not a bad thing. For example if some clown starts littering your forum with threads like "Are Chinese Good Fuckers?" ---- well it's your forum and your asset --- so you should protect it.

Sorry -- that is my daily lengthy rant.
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Re: Is CEO Repeating The Mistakes of That Other Site

Postby General Mackevili » Tue Jun 10, 2014 6:30 pm

Rain Dog wrote:
2) I just caution, particularly in reply to ODs comments about post count being the lifeblood of a forum. This is a myth; a fallacy -- much like a company that only looks at daily earnings and has no plan or vision. The lifeblood of a forum is it's intangibles (typically it's reputation which is driven by it's content and the QUALITY of it's user base).


4) Censorship -- in my own opinion K-440 does not censor content that much. Most of their censorship is ego-driven, knee jerk, displays of power. To be fair I cannot remember any thread or poster censored for content (except for forum criticisms). To that end I give you credit, because I am pretty sure you won't lock this thread even though i am offering some constructive criticism (unlike what happened on K440).
I think I lean more towards your reasoning on that.

However, The Dragon and I have obviously discussed these matters, and i think we agreed that "starting out" we needed post counts (quantity) to enter with a BANG, and then start focusing on content (quality).

We are also very thankful and fortunate to have so many posters that have gone out of their ways to start new and interesting threads!

And believe it or not, we like the criticism out in the open (public). It allows others to pitch in with their thoughts on the matter too before we make any executive decisions. It's always a good idea to see any obstacle from as many angles as possible before making decisions.

So no, we're glad to have you help us see things from every angle possible! Thanks!

Again, i think it's a good call to put the thread about the Chinese being good lovers or not in the Asinine Arena. People can still receive both good and bad Karma for posts they make there, LoL..
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Re: Is CEO Repeating The Mistakes of That Other Site

Postby OrangeDragon » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:25 pm

Well, I had started a reply and then lost is... but since you're clearly not understanding me I suppose I should redo it.

It's not "post count" so much as steady use. People get bored... easy... and if every time they check back in a day there are only 1 or 2 active topics... they stop checking back as often. So some conversational posting, even in not everyone is in on the conversation, is a good thing. It's what keeps it moving. I don't know, or really care to know, anything about fish farming, but if 2 users started a conversation on fish farming that I had no interest in I wouldn't complain that it was an "inside thing"... I'd ignore it and look for the things I was interested in.

A lot of people making a "quality" judgement based on their own likes and knowledge and things they care about... but then ignoring the idea that those things may be of interest to others, this having a quality to them. Even if those others are only a small group of fairly active posters who also contribute in other ways. Alienating them off to facebook land to have their chat means that's where they will share their other information as well. As has been proven over and over and over again in the last X years where facebook has been popular. Even at times people who get the inside joke, but aren't a part of it, have a laugh reading it while not participating.

A lot of those (we) prolific posters are such because we're online a lot... meaning we tend to hear about news/events pretty fast... meaning we're good for contributing those things quickly to the site before it's "old news" to stimulate conversation on the subjects.

It's not the core content by any means, but it has to be there or people will just get bored with the site and stop checking back. In that way it is a life blood, not the heart or brain or any other core organ... but the blood that keeps things moving so those parts can function.
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Re: Is CEO Repeating The Mistakes of That Other Site

Postby OrangeDragon » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:33 pm

and what's a shame about that chinese thread it that it really was a decent thread on chinese population growth started poorly which sent it spiralling off a bit (poor title choice and a couple of posts). i'd personally have waited to see if it ended up back on track as population discussion before discounting it as wholly asinine.
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Re: Is CEO Repeating The Mistakes of That Other Site

Postby General Mackevili » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:44 pm

OrangeDragon wrote:... (poor title choice...
That. LoL. I think it slipped past my radar the first time I saw it because it had/has potential.

When the title was brought up here, it didn't sound very kosher (and the fact that it was started by the Chicken probably didn't help me see the potential in the thread, no offense Chicken) and I just moved it without really looking too deep into it.

Oops.
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Re: Is CEO Repeating The Mistakes of That Other Site

Postby Joon » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:52 pm

OrangeDragon wrote:Well, I had started a reply and then lost is... but since you're clearly not understanding me I suppose I should redo it.

It's not "post count" so much as steady use. People get bored... easy... and if every time they check back in a day there are only 1 or 2 active topics... they stop checking back as often. So some conversational posting, even in not everyone is in on the conversation, is a good thing.
I hope you will forgive me for quoting K440, but Florida there pretty much said it rather simply:
Florida on K440 wrote:No vlad,

Threads I have started (and this may be true for others)
can be a bit slow to take off.

It was YOU, posting whatever you do, pun, off topic, whatever,
that gave the thread a bounce. Sometimes I think people
post a sympathetic on topic comment just to compensate for
what seemed like you de-railing the thread.

Anyway, Thank Vlad, for each and every one of those posts.
Some of the threads eventually took off and were great fun.

Again, Thanks vlad.
(That was in response to vlad who said to give him the site and the puns stop)

It helps to give a bump and put new threads under the radar of posters, and maybe new posters.

However, I agree with Rain Dog, it has to be done in moderation otherwise it will be a clique and impenetrable for newbies or misconstrued by other members (like me. I was told I was a drama queen. I don't know where it comes from)
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Re: Is CEO Repeating The Mistakes of That Other Site

Postby General Mackevili » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:00 pm

Joon wrote:... it has to be done in moderation otherwise it will be a clique and impenetrable for newbies or misconstrued by other members...
Speaking of moderation...

I think the wisest move they ever made was to offer me the position of Moderator.

The wisest move I've ever made was turning it down and teaming up with The Dragon to help the community create CEO.

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Re: Is CEO Repeating The Mistakes of That Other Site

Postby Soi Dog » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:04 pm

I think Rain dog nailed it perfectly. If I have to click through 37 pages of back and forth circle jerk nonsense between the same 3 or 4 posters with their lame inside repetitive jokes then I will lose interest. And while 37 pages of posts per topic may be great for site statistics early on, long term that is certain death to the forum. Just sayin'. How to reign that in without over moderation and deleting posts is the big problem any forum moderator faces.
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Re: Is CEO Repeating The Mistakes of That Other Site

Postby OrangeDragon » Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:08 pm

Soi Dog wrote:I think Rain dog nailed it perfectly. If I have to click through 37 pages of back and forth circle jerk nonsense between the same 3 or 4 posters with their lame inside repetitive jokes then I will lose interest. And while 37 pages of posts per topic may be great for site statistics early on, long term that is certain death to the forum. Just sayin'. How to reign that in without over moderation and deleting posts is the big problem any forum moderator faces.
Bit of an exaggeration... try 2 pages, of a 4 page topic.... a little more realistic.

And that's the rub... just like with ppl complaining about 440 some people still keep saying "shouldn't this be stopped by now" when it's seriously like 4-5 posts every few days. (Then a lot of posts ABOUT those posts because of their complaining.) It's not excessive, or even really super noticable, UNLESS it's something you don't like... then you ignore the other 99% of what's going on and focus on it.


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