An apology to Keeping_It_Riel

EdinWigan · Post by **EdinWigan** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:25 am

It's your call Dragon and the Gen'. Someone needs to set the line or we are setting it at the weirdest thought of the weirdest mind and that means the more stable members suffer, having to read such stuff.

Your Call (on our behalf)

You Make it (on our behalf)

No problem (on our behalf)

Sometimes those of us who do not have a loud, vocal message to add, stay silent. This does not mean we have not an equally valid opinion and others may take that silence as agreement with their point of view.

If you support such actions post in an open forum to maintain a true balance. If of course a majority of us disagree, let me get my rope, we has an appointment at the hanging tree

OrangeDragon · Post by **OrangeDragon** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:30 am

UKJ:

First... I'm not even the one who hid the thread... UT did it when he was uncertain, after the first poster in the split off thread renamed it to the original thread title, which was confusing users. Moderators don't have delete power, what they do instead is hide a questionable post/thread in the admin section for us to review... but a lot was going on and messages got crossed. The General and I each thought the other had done it and were leaving each other to our respective decisions; once we realized it had been hidden by UT waiting for us to make a call, the conversation had moved into another thread so I felt it wasn't such a big deal.

Yes, I titled it groundless speculation... because his OP was so full of incorrect and sketchy information with giant leaps to conclusions that it was groundless speculation.

As for speculation... I honestly did want to ban it all. The general talked me out of it saying it was excessive. But I still think playing pin the death on the expat for entertainment is tasteless and crude, and is just turning us into another 440. I don't want to be a CPN either... but there has to be some place in the middle. And I think not making a murder she wrote game out of people's tragedies is a reasonable thing. Or at least asking people to move it off into a thread in this section, where the grieving friends and family are less likely to encounter it.

You still didn't answer my questions.

UKJ · Post by **UKJ** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:40 am

Here's a post I made months ago.

UKJ wrote:How is the admin going to deal with the threads of peoples deaths? I think a lot of people found some comments elsewhere as distasteful, while others thought it was harmless fun.

I do find mocking the dead distasteful. So I would agree with some light editing, if it was the same rule for strangers and known expats. In the case of some old 440 members, mocking could be allowed if they had done so in the past, as they would deserve it. Not that most of us would want to.

OrangeDragon · Post by **OrangeDragon** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:43 am

UKJ wrote:Here's a post I made months ago.

UKJ wrote:How is the admin going to deal with the threads of peoples deaths? I think a lot of people found some comments elsewhere as distasteful, while others thought it was harmless fun.
I do find mocking the dead distasteful. So I would agree with some light editing, if it was the same rule for strangers and known expats. In the case of some old 440 members, mocking could be allowed if they had done so in the past, as they would deserve it. Not that most of us would want to.

Do you really think anyone "deserves" it? Particularly their family members who will likely be reading it... not them themselves?

I've always been a big fan of death=all debts paid.

UKJ · Post by **UKJ** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:21 am

OrangeDragon wrote:
UKJ wrote:Here's a post I made months ago.

UKJ wrote:How is the admin going to deal with the threads of peoples deaths? I think a lot of people found some comments elsewhere as distasteful, while others thought it was harmless fun.
I do find mocking the dead distasteful. So I would agree with some light editing, if it was the same rule for strangers and known expats. In the case of some old 440 members, mocking could be allowed if they had done so in the past, as they would deserve it. Not that most of us would want to.
Do you really think anyone "deserves" it? Particularly their family members who will likely be reading it... not them themselves?

I've always been a big fan of death=all debts paid.

Yes, I think they deserve it. The old 440 invented the abusive deathpat threads. I haven't seen them elsewhere. And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they keep it up after family and friends of the deceased posted?

Death = debts paid? No. In the UK just now, a lot of dead, allegded sex offenders who were celebrities are being named without trial. I think public opinion is with the naming and shaming, dead or not.

OrangeDragon · Post by **OrangeDragon** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:24 am

UKJ wrote:
OrangeDragon wrote:
UKJ wrote:Here's a post I made months ago.

UKJ wrote:How is the admin going to deal with the threads of peoples deaths? I think a lot of people found some comments elsewhere as distasteful, while others thought it was harmless fun.
I do find mocking the dead distasteful. So I would agree with some light editing, if it was the same rule for strangers and known expats. In the case of some old 440 members, mocking could be allowed if they had done so in the past, as they would deserve it. Not that most of us would want to.
Do you really think anyone "deserves" it? Particularly their family members who will likely be reading it... not them themselves?

I've always been a big fan of death=all debts paid.
Yes, I think they deserve it. The old 440 invented the abusive deathpat threads. I haven't seen them elsewhere. And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they keep it up after family and friends of the deceased posted?

Death = debts paid? No. In the UK just now, a lot of dead, allegded sex offenders who were celebrities are being named without trial. I think public opinion is with the naming and shaming, dead or not.

That's tragic to hear about the UK... not like you can punish them, not like they can defend themselves. All it does is hurt people who didn't even have a hand in it.

YouTube · Post by **General Mackevili** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:17 am

Personally, I think the censorship over Peter's death is being taken way too far.

OD, seems you are practically saying, "if you don't have something nice to say about Peter, don't say anything at all."

It's not like people have been saying nothing but nice things about him for 10+ years, and now that he's dead people are coming out of the woodwork taking cheap shots and saying, "Actually, I think he's an asshole."

Yes, I think it was good that we were a little more aggressive right at first, as Peter was a member on here and many of us had been communicating with him hours before his death. We were all caught off guard and it hit many of us pretty damn hard.

Hell, his death even made the paper, unlike most deaths here. Now that we are all over the shock, I see no reason why anything negative about Peter should be considered out of order. Sure, straight mocking him or just coming on to hurl insults for no reason shouldn't be tolerated, but we don't allow that for other people that end up with a death thread either. I deleted a few posts off the thread about the cop who died because they were just hurtful, yet contributed nothing.

Allowing reasonable, respectful speculation is also fine, within reason. I don't think we should go all crazy with the censorship of the dead now because a member that several members were close with died.

What is NOT fine is mocking or making fun of the dead. That's the only thing we need to really focus on keeping off of CEO.

CEO has been against censorship from the beginning and I don't see why now, after Peter's death, we need to get all crazy with it.

If members have interesting things to discuss about his death while being respectful AND avoid 'mocking the dead' we should absolutely allow them to discuss it here.

And some of us will remember that guy from Georgia who got on here and K440 and said he was pretty upset about the pictures and the speculation, THEN goes on to post more pictures himself and agrees with people's speculation.

In a country like Cambodia where almost EVERY foreigner's death is rules either a 'heart attack' or 'wind overload' it's crucial that we allow members to make reasonable and respectful speculation on such cases.

So again, I hope everyone can understand we were all very much affected by Peter's death and initially, probably more of a reaction, wanted things to stay more closely on topic, but those were decisions we made right there on the spot when everything was happening, but I see no reason to start changing rules now.

And we just need to make sure we continue to not allow 'mocking the dead' no matter who they are.

Fair enough?

OrangeDragon · Post by **OrangeDragon** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:47 am

General Mackevili wrote: OD, seems you are practically saying, "if you don't have something nice to say about Peter, don't say anything at all."

In a thread intended from the start for people to leave their condolences, I don't think that's such a big request. I don't think it's unreasonable to have 2 threads on the subject in different sections, on showing respect and tact that's very "up-front and public" and one in a less public area (not permissions based, but just a little "out of the way") for the rest of the chatter on the subject.

To the mocking/making fun... what about outright insulting them? I mean, that sort of falls into the above. It almost sounds like you're saying it's ok to say "This guy is an asshole" but not "This guy sounds like an asshole".

And I knew the not speculating thing wouldn't be popular... it's a fun game that even I've participated in. I still think it's questionable, especially when people start presenting evidence for their case that would fall into the above categories. How would one categorize "He probably killed himself, sounds like a loser and decided to off himself." Was it reasonable speculation, because the guy had a lot of shit going wrong in his life, to say he sounds like a loser? Or was it mockery. Makes it really hard to draw any easy to follow lines for posters when you leave an area that fuzzy. Or what about personal information that may be exposed in that process... "Maybe his wife found out about his 3 other girlfriends and killed him over it." for example.

Just seems like a lot of "iffy" stuff in letting that sort of thing go down. Especially when we're using real names to make it easy for people who aren't members to find information.

While it does suck that we have trouble getting real cause of death... in most cases, speculating what it "might" have been doesn't really solve that.

You're dead on about being affected by it... including as a motivation to get us really to start thinking about and discussing this stuff.

YouTube · Post by **General Mackevili** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:19 am

I'm just saying you seem to be leaning VERY hard towards censorship here.

Maybe we can change this to the Cambodia Parents Expats Network Online.

Cowshed Cowboy · Post by **Cowshed Cowboy** » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:05 pm

I wonder if KIR's long time friends and forum buddies who wish respect to be shown, do much during his time at the helm of K440 to express their presumably similar distaste at the lack of respect shown to others deaths on his site and try and influence him to take a more compassionate approach.

An apology to Keeping_It_Riel

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Re: An apology to Keeping_It_Riel

Re: An apology to Keeping_It_Riel

Re: An apology to Keeping_It_Riel

Re: An apology to Keeping_It_Riel

Re: An apology to Keeping_It_Riel

Re: An apology to Keeping_It_Riel

Re: An apology to Keeping_It_Riel

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