So, if someone says they're proud to be Khmer they are referring to liberal attitudes toward sexuality? C'mon you Khmer contributors what exactly is your source of pride that I can't fathom? What Cambodian has achieved world recognition for learned or virtuous endeavors, especially in science in oh say the last 500 years. I concede Van Molivan, but besides him who else?

Jamie_Lambo wrote:Hotdigr.... we should tell BUD about this topic....

Hotdigr wrote:.

Hmmmmm..... Nah, he's doing ok with the real ladies at the moment mate!

asp wrote:What Cambodian has achieved world recognition for learned or virtuous endeavors...

Rithy Panh.

Rithy Panh (Khmer: ប៉ាន់ រិទ្ធី; born April 18, 1964) is an internationally and critically acclaimed Cambodian documentary film director and screenwriter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rithy_Panh
His work has been nominated for the oscars and he won a prize at Cannes Film Festival. He's pretty well known to cinema buffs internationally, and he also works to preserve Cambodian film,photographic and audiovisual history with the Bophana centre in PP.

(No, I'm not Cambodian, Asp, so just ignore me if that bugs you. It's true that there are few internationally known Cambodians, but Rithy Panh is one; and he's only one I can name I'm sorry to say . Anyway, I don't think that is the point of the Cambodian pride thing, so I'll leave the Cambodians to say what they are most proud of... BUT I think they can be proud of their culture in general and the fact that it still exists after genocide, civil war and all the aftermath of peacekeepers and NGOs. Love it or hate it, there is something specific about Khmer culture that endures.)

I think they need a more cohesive idea of what it means to be Khmer than just highlighting (moderately) successful Khmers.

The Thais worked well on developing their idea of Thai-ness with the monarchy, but Cambodia squandered their royals during the civil war. Right now there's a vague, directionless ethnic pride that has translated into little more than hate for Vietnamese at times and is vulnerable to division. In only the last 10 years you have foreign mosques being built and Cham boys and girls parading around in Islamic garb that is definitely Arabic rather than traditional Khmer, they need to crack down on that heavily before you start having issues about non-integration that will divide the country like the Philippines. Unsympathetically kick out any foreigners promoting ideals that are against general Khmer ideals, particularly imams spreading Arabic morals, but anyone guilty of it really. Then you need to study Khmer history and draw up some ideas about what makes a good Cambodian, then promote it along with support for study of sciences and technology.

ot mien kampf wrote:I think they need a more cohesive idea of what it means to be Khmer than just highlighting (moderately) successful Khmers.

The Thais worked well on developing their idea of Thai-ness with the monarchy, but Cambodia squandered their royals during the civil war. Right now there's a vague, directionless ethnic pride that has translated into little more than hate for Vietnamese at times and is vulnerable to division. In only the last 10 years you have foreign mosques being built and Cham boys and girls parading around in Islamic garb that is definitely Arabic rather than traditional Khmer, they need to crack down on that heavily before you start having issues about non-integration that will divide the country like the Philippines. Unsympathetically kick out any foreigners promoting ideals that are against general Khmer ideals, particularly imams spreading Arabic morals, but anyone guilty of it really. Then you need to study Khmer history and draw up some ideas about what makes a good Cambodian, then promote it along with support for study of sciences and technology.

The Cham have been in Cambodia for more than long enough to be part of the social fabric of the country. They got more than enough of a hard time from the KR; they don't need some sort of misguided crackdown. If you spent some time talking to them, rather than judging them, you'd find a wonderful community of decent, kind people - whatever clothes they may wear.

TheGrinchSR wrote:

ot mien kampf wrote:I think they need a more cohesive idea of what it means to be Khmer than just highlighting (moderately) successful Khmers.

The Thais worked well on developing their idea of Thai-ness with the monarchy, but Cambodia squandered their royals during the civil war. Right now there's a vague, directionless ethnic pride that has translated into little more than hate for Vietnamese at times and is vulnerable to division. In only the last 10 years you have foreign mosques being built and Cham boys and girls parading around in Islamic garb that is definitely Arabic rather than traditional Khmer, they need to crack down on that heavily before you start having issues about non-integration that will divide the country like the Philippines. Unsympathetically kick out any foreigners promoting ideals that are against general Khmer ideals, particularly imams spreading Arabic morals, but anyone guilty of it really. Then you need to study Khmer history and draw up some ideas about what makes a good Cambodian, then promote it along with support for study of sciences and technology.

The Cham have been in Cambodia for more than long enough to be part of the social fabric of the country. They got more than enough of a hard time from the KR; they don't need some sort of misguided crackdown. If you spent some time talking to them, rather than judging them, you'd find a wonderful community of decent, kind people - whatever clothes they may wear.

I like the Cham. I don't like the Arab meddling that has appeared in the last 10 years and has brought levels of dress that are not part of Khmer society, particularly boys wearing what is a purely Arab thawb; you can't tell me that is not a recent addition brought to Cambodia solely by outsiders. I don't begrudge the Cham children wearing something because they don't know better, however I am disgusted by the people who come and preach increasingly Arab code to them. I think it's totally right to string up and punish those trying to indoctrinate the Cham into something that will eventually end up like the madrassas in Pakistan if the foreigners are given their way.

Rather than trying to spin what I was saying around into a weak pathetic cry of Islamophobia, try to realise that Arabs or Malays have just as little right to tell the Cham what is "right" than any other foreigner, and trying to make the unique Cham culture adhere more closely to an alien form of Islam is just as bad as trying to remove Islam from them entirely. Cambodia is not Arabia, the Cham are not Arabs. If the Cham are encouraged to practice their religion in a non-traditional, Arab manner, there will be problems and everyone knows it. If the traditional Cham beliefs are eroded and replaced with Saudi ones, then there will be in conflict with the rest of the country because Arab culture is just too alien to exist alongside Buddhist Cambodia.

I consider the people trying to change the Cham to be little more than shit stirrers promoting social division for their own gain, and they should be treated as such. It's as wrong as the US preachers using their money and going to Uganda to spread homophobia among local churches. In fact it may be worse because the Cham Islam probably has local curiosities that will be erased if Islam is stupidly treated like a single monolithic religion by "tolerant" people who agree with this foreign influence.

Edit: If you want proof of foreign influence, drive up through Kampong Cham along the river, a significant number of the newest, most Arabic looking mosques have signs proclaiming who funded them. Lots of Malay and Arab countries, as opposed to the Buddhist temples that are funded by Khmer donations. These are the ones with the most covered boys and girls attending.

If you want a super short answer...

The Cham (as of the recent past) are one of the few functional Islamic societies on Earth, HE would be doing the world a favor if he dropped any foreign clerics trying to change the Cham off the tallest building in PP with a rope around their neck. I like the Cham as they are, I hate the potential for them to be destroyed by foreign clerics and turned into yet another agent of global Salafist religious warfare (like the Moro, Acehnese and many others)

John Bingham wrote:

ot mien kampf wrote:In only the last 10 years you have foreign mosques being built and Cham boys and girls parading around in Islamic garb that is definitely Arabic rather than traditional Khmer, they need to crack down on that ....

What is "traditional Khmer"? It changes all the time. Not so long ago, almost everyone wore quite a formal outfit. Shirt and long formal pants, blouse and long skirt. Short pants were for farmers, short skirts were for women of ill repute. That has changed a lot since.
Anyway, when I notice Chams at all it's mostly fit women who dress pretty much like anyone else but maybe wear a light headscarf. I have Cham friends here, and they look and act like anyone else, except maybe they aren't so superstitious. They would only rarely wear any Islamic looking garb, just for the odd ceremony. Like anyone else they are more concerned with getting on with their own lot, I've often talked politics with Cham friends and they are all very liberal in their opinions, whatever their political allegiances here. We have discussed Jihad etc but its as much an alien concept to them as it is to me.

Like I said, that's gradually changing wherever foreign funded mosques are popping up and the clothing being pushed is Arabic, not merely Islamic.

I have no qualms saying that the people pushing that change should be sent back to their home country in a box with the lid nailed down. I'll remind you that on the other page people have said a lot worse about gay people, I don't know why I'm being grilled for calling for a hardline approach to a few foreign shitstirrers who will bring nothing good to the Cham or Cambodia. The problem isn't the Cham's Islam, the problem is that Saudi Salafists will use their money and stick their dick in it given the chance. That dick needs to be cut off before it squirts out Sharia law and Jihad.