bolueeleh wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:01 pm these NGOs dont realise that once they leave, these farmers goes back to their old ways of farming, slash & burn, overly dependent on pesticides, growth hormones, etc, i have seen rice farmers at takeo with japanese rice planting machines, once the japs left, the machine broke down, the next month it is collecting rust beside the house

Did these machines actually transplant or were they just straight seeders? The NGO should have provided harvesters instead, seeding small scale rice farms is a breeze, transplanting not so much but still manageable and yields a better crop. (I'm not very informed with regards to Khmer rice farming techniques but I assume they transplant as well no?)
The economics and utilisation of harvesters are far more favourable. Generally with grain type crops, and it seems this is also the case with rice as it can be started on smaller irrigated area beforehand then transplanted to a larger one, the seeding timeline is not as constrained as the harvesting one. Generally a lot more can go wrong at harvest, there are more variables that can affect the quality of the crop, and the timing is if more importance.
Just look at Thailand, very few outsource seeders, the money is in small/medium Kubota combines that they truck around the countryside at harvest time, that's the most critical time and the benefits of mechanical harvesting are more favourable. Obviously, as the wages increases, the available labour shrinks, and the farms grow larger, the economics of fully mechanized farming become more favourable, just as it did in every other developping country.
Off topic but might interest you, a friend who runs quite a large vegetable farm, but also use some of the land for hobby stuff, in this case about forty acres of organic barley and oats for his new brewery, bought a very old used Massey Ferguson 520 (i think it was from the late 60s) for about 3000$ delivered. Took us a few days to iron out some issues, but it was a blast.

what i saw rusting was a transplanter

bolueeleh wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:42 pm what i saw rusting was a transplanter

Well NGOs would be better to concentrate on basic education and social stuff IMO. The majority of people at NGOs don't have any 'skin in the game' ie. their own money, just gov aid or private donations (whether money or cheap equipment that the companies can't sell or hand downs that have been written off), so even with good intentions it rarely works out, the whole country is a continuing example to that!
While it's nice that foreign governments have helped develop the infrastructure, the line must be drawn somewhere, it allows the elite to pocket hundreds of millions of dollars (billions if you add in concessions for dams, logging/plantations, sketchy mineral and oil rights, etc.) that they can squirrel away in offshore accounts and in local land(although most of it was grabbed years ago), maintain private militias, build opulent houses, afford multiple foreign exotic cars and yatchs, etc. without having to account for their ineptitude to the local populace. Once in a while they donate a Honda dream, or a few bags of rice, or help a sick villager, never forgetting to invite all the local journalists for the obligatory photo op.
Also, most foreign successful business people that have a fair sum to invest, say 1+ million dollars, recognize this, and unless they wish to play roulette, rarely get involved in distorted ecomonies like Cambodia's so there's very little influx of people that bring in new concepts.
Anyways, there's not much giving specialised farm machinery away to people who cannot properly store it, maximise it's use, no parts network so shoddy repairs, cannot read the service manual, etc. Rice transplanters ate not very versatile, you cannot use it everyday like a car so what can they do with it after? They can maybe use it a few weeks per crop at most if they can transport it around, assuming they don't just transplant their own fields in half the time then head back to the hammock, and I remember for such crappy machine they were expensive in Thailand, starting about 4k$ for a push one and up to 18k$ for ride on models, so parts are maybe not so cheap either. And they were slow, not much return for the time saved IMO.
For less than 50k$ you could buy a small and a larger combine, flat bed truck for 10-20k$, (of course prices are a bit more now and for sure some import tax here), hire four drivers, and work steady 24/7 for maybe 1-1.5 months travelling around a large area each crop harvest, with 2-3 crops per year, and have a real business model, not this NGO stuff. That was the best business model I saw in small scale farming in Issan, but here there's not much infrastructure for multiple rice crops/yr, and I'm not sure if most farmer could afford it to outsource the harvest if they only have one crop a year.

Raybull wrote: ↑Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:55 am

bolueeleh wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:42 pm what i saw rusting was a transplanter

Well NGOs would be better to concentrate on education and social stuff IMO. While it's nice that foreign governments have helped develop the infrastructure, the line must be drawn somewhere, it allows the elite to pocket hundreds of millions of dollars (probably billions, if you add in concessions for dams, logging/plantations, sketchy mineral and oil rights, etc.) that they can squirrell away offshore, build opulent houses, afford multiples foreign exotic cars and yatchs, etc. without having to account for their ineptitude to the local populace. Once in a while they donate a Honda dream, or a few bags of rice, or help a sick villager, never forgetting to invite all the local journalists for the obligatory photo op.
There's no point giving farm machinery away to people who cannot properly store it, maximise it's use, no parts network so shoddy repairs, cannot read the service manual, etc. The majority of people at NGOs don't have any 'skin in the game' ie. their own money, just gov aid or private donations (whether money or cheap equipment that the companies can't sell or hand downs that have been written off), so even with good intentions it rarely works out, the whole country is an example to that!
A Rice transplanter is not very versatile, you cannot use it everyday like a car so what can they do with it after? They can maybe use it a few weeks per crop at most if they can transport it around, assuming they don't just transplant their own fields in half the time then head back to the hammock, and I remember for such crappy machine they were expensive in Thailand, starting about 4k$ for a push one and up to 18k$ for ride on models, so parts are maybe not so cheap either. And they were slow, not much return for the time saved IMO.
For about 20k$ + 28k$ you could buy a smaller and a larger combine, flat bed truck for 10-20k$, (of course prices are a bit more now and for sure some import tax here), four drivers, and work steady 24/7 for 1-2 month travelling around large area each crop harvest, with 2-3 crops per year, and have a real business model, not this NGO stuff. That was the best business model I saw in small scale farming in Issan, but here there's not much infrastructure for multiple rice crops/yr, and I'm not sure if most farmer could afford it to outsource the harvest if they only have one crop a year.

This is turning into quite a thread I never realized there were so many of you with on-the-ground knowledge.
Is it really true that the Cambodian government charges import tax on agricultural machinery here?

juansweetpotato wrote: ↑Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:06 am

Raybull wrote: ↑Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:55 am

bolueeleh wrote: ↑Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:42 pm what i saw rusting was a transplanter

Well NGOs would be better to concentrate on education and social stuff IMO. While it's nice that foreign governments have helped develop the infrastructure, the line must be drawn somewhere, it allows the elite to pocket hundreds of millions of dollars (probably billions, if you add in concessions for dams, logging/plantations, sketchy mineral and oil rights, etc.) that they can squirrell away offshore, build opulent houses, afford multiples foreign exotic cars and yatchs, etc. without having to account for their ineptitude to the local populace. Once in a while they donate a Honda dream, or a few bags of rice, or help a sick villager, never forgetting to invite all the local journalists for the obligatory photo op.
There's no point giving farm machinery away to people who cannot properly store it, maximise it's use, no parts network so shoddy repairs, cannot read the service manual, etc. The majority of people at NGOs don't have any 'skin in the game' ie. their own money, just gov aid or private donations (whether money or cheap equipment that the companies can't sell or hand downs that have been written off), so even with good intentions it rarely works out, the whole country is an example to that!
A Rice transplanter is not very versatile, you cannot use it everyday like a car so what can they do with it after? They can maybe use it a few weeks per crop at most if they can transport it around, assuming they don't just transplant their own fields in half the time then head back to the hammock, and I remember for such crappy machine they were expensive in Thailand, starting about 4k$ for a push one and up to 18k$ for ride on models, so parts are maybe not so cheap either. And they were slow, not much return for the time saved IMO.
For about 20k$ + 28k$ you could buy a smaller and a larger combine, flat bed truck for 10-20k$, (of course prices are a bit more now and for sure some import tax here), four drivers, and work steady 24/7 for 1-2 month travelling around large area each crop harvest, with 2-3 crops per year, and have a real business model, not this NGO stuff. That was the best business model I saw in small scale farming in Issan, but here there's not much infrastructure for multiple rice crops/yr, and I'm not sure if most farmer could afford it to outsource the harvest if they only have one crop a year.

This is turning into quite a thread I never realized there were so many of you with on-the-ground knowledge.
Is it really true that the Cambodian government charges import tax on agricultural machinery here?

I did a real edit job to my post as I just wrote it quick the first time around earlier and was hoping to get it in before a reply.
Taxes are quite low, generally only the VAT applies, and a 15% CD in some cases, you can look here. http://www.customs.gov.kh/publication-a ... -2017=Farm
There's a few ways to initially import tax free for many types of businesses but you need a sizeable business investment (say like if you were starting a concrete truck company with a dozen or so trucks at 100k$ a pop for example).

John Bingham wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:38 am

juansweetpotato wrote: Precisely. How about a government funded school of agriculture that supplies free scholarships?

How about The Royal University of Agriculture that opened in 1964?

http://www.rua.edu.kh/

I was just the 7745th viewer of their website, not sure what to make of that! I've met farmers who have logged into their FB accounts nearly that many times!

Raybull wrote: ↑Sun Feb 19, 2017 3:05 am

John Bingham wrote: ↑Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:38 am

juansweetpotato wrote: Precisely. How about a government funded school of agriculture that supplies free scholarships?

How about The Royal University of Agriculture that opened in 1964?

http://www.rua.edu.kh/

I was just the 7745th viewer of their website, not sure what to make of that! I've met farmers who have logged into their FB accounts nearly that many times!

That's just Bingham trying to be a smart arse, and falling flat on his face again with anyone that knows about something and doesn't take the government line. I mean, what kind of fool takes the government line in Cambodia?

just 1 month when i first started biz here, some military guys rolled up in shiny camry touting 2 small generators with "donated by japan" words on the side, from that onwards it just affirmed my believe what i had saw and what i believe about the systems and NGOs in this country, i personally have never believed in all this charities or NGOs ever since what i saw back in my own country