Phnom.Penh dialect

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Re: Phnom.Penh dialect

Post by Jamie_Lambo »

iluvu wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:40 pm My Khmer has all been learned in the US. We never had a proper term for cell phone so we just called it a hand phone. Also, we are very informal in the US, especially using see for eat. With that said, I can't understand any music or TV lol.
ស៊ី - Sii - as far as i know is used for animals eating? lol

most people i know use the word ញ៉ាំ - Nyam - which is also informal and has the multi use of meaning eat + drink

i think the more rural way of saying to eat is - ហូប - Hoob? (Taa might know this?) maybe a shortened down version of - ម្ហូប - Mhoob (food) which is the same spelling just with the added 'M' on the front

i think ពិសា - Piisaa - is a polite formal way of saying to eat + drink, can also mean tasty/delicious
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Re: Phnom.Penh dialect

Post by taabarang »

tAgree with all the above Jamie, however a child who is being finicky about their food might be told by an angry parent, "Si!", then receive a lecture about how lucky they are not to have lived in the time of Pol Pot.

The following is a bit off topic, but this discussion reminded me and I was a finicky eater. Well finicky in the sense that my parsimonious moms would not hesitate to cook 3-4 meals a week with liver. So one evening my dad stared over at me, put down his knife and fork while I was.pushing my food on the plate and said " You eat that food your mammy made; you ain't no better than the rest of us. "
Last edited by taabarang on Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Phnom.Penh dialect

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taabarang wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:58 pm Agree with all the above Jamie, however a child who is being finicky about their food might be told by an angry parent, "Si!", then receive a lecture about how lucky they are not to have lived in the time of Pol Pot.

The following is a bit off topic, but this discussion reminded me and I was a finicky eater. Well finicky in the sense that my parsimonious moms would not hesitate to cook 3-4 meals a week with liver. So one evening my dad stated over at me, put down his knife and fork while I was.pushing my food on the plate and said " You eat that food your mammy made; you ain't no better than the rest of us. "
:thumb:
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Re: Phnom.Penh dialect

Post by iluvu »

Actually, my mom would always tell me to chas chorm in the middle of my chest, whatever that means
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Re: Phnom.Penh dialect

Post by taabarang »

"Actually, my mom would always tell me to chas chorm in the middle of my chest, whatever that means "

We have something so similar in my village that I feel the difference can be attributed to either
1) moms spoke a dialect or
2) you have forgotten what exactly she said and only a vague memory from childhood persists. Also, as far as I know there is no direct translation for this verb pair and they used not alone but in a phrase.

So in our village at least this verb pair has an "r" sound in it. So they say *chrea chrom." And it is heard but only rarely in these expressions.

1) chrea chrom aoii os! and
2) chrea chrom ot kit pi kee!

These are considered highly strong expressions and are only rarely heard. I will try to capture the spirit and strength of the meaning. So in numerical order:
1) Eat all of your fucking food!
2) This fucker devoured everything and left us nothing.

For number 2 there is a similar expression I have discussed elsewhere. It is Sii kmok.

Now there's a verbal expression the covers mom's pointing at your chest but a bit of more research is required. Obviously these are strong expressions and best avoided, especially by foreign speakers.
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Re: Phnom.Penh dialect

Post by iluvu »

Nonono, this is all Americanized Khmer. Sorry I won't be able to spell it correctly but your chrea chrome is right. So it was chrea chorm godah toong? My mom has lived most of her life in America so she's lost a lot of vocabulary and the more proper ways of speaking. We definitely don't say lok da or nak ma. And my dad, well he's Khmer krom lol, my brothers in Vietnam don't even bow or chom riep soo, they also laughed at me for saying yaam instead of sii.

What I'm really rambling on about is that my mother and I speak very freely, we cuss at each other just not in front of others. We just know context is what matters. I'm a little drunk so sorry for this rambling.
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Re: Phnom.Penh dialect

Post by Bitte_Kein_Lexus »

taabarang wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:57 pm "i find PP a mixture of Dialects tbh"
As do I.
You and Jamie don't seem to get it. Around 60% of Phnom Penh residents weren't born in the city (wild guess), so of course you're going to hear a multitude of tiny accents/dialects. It's not as homogenous as X or Y village. The fact remains that "standard Khmer" is Phnom Penh "dialect" as it slowly homogenizes the language. People watch TV and hear the language spoken there, then mimic it. I still don't like the word dialect, as it's infers a bigger difference than there actually is. I've never really had trouble understanding the locals in any area, even Siem Riep. Tiny villages in Kompong Chnang had the strongest accent I've ever heard, as did some of the Phnong/Krung villages (because it's not the first language of many of the older folks).

Jamie_Lambo wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:29 pm ស៊ី - Sii - as far as i know is used for animals eating? lol

most people i know use the word ញ៉ាំ - Nyam - which is also informal and has the multi use of meaning eat + drink

i think the more rural way of saying to eat is - ហូប - Hoob? (Taa might know this?) maybe a shortened down version of - ម្ហូប - Mhoob (food) which is the same spelling just with the added 'M' on the front

i think ពិសា - Piisaa - is a polite formal way of saying to eat + drink, can also mean tasty/delicious
I find it very hard to believe you've never heard Sii being used. Sure, it's technically for animals and children, but friends and siblings use it among themselves all the time, as do family members (older talking to younger member, both lovingly or angrily). When they us it, I sometimes joke that they can sii all they want, but I'll nyam. Cue bursts of laughter at the barang schooling them. Anyways, it's quite a common word but maybe you haven't been listening for it.

As for pisaa, no one uses that word. I also learned it years ago when I was actively studying Khmer, but in about a decade, have never heard it being used in a normal setting (or ever?). Chaan, which is used for monks is more commonly heard. Sowii is for the King if I recall correctly (yes, I've made jokes about it as well).

It's worth noting that Americanized or overseas Khmer is also perhaps very slightly different, as iluvu says. Many of the refugees came from the boonies and or completely different parts of the country. Most also weren't necessarily highly educated, either because of their rural background or interruptions the war had caused. France got a higher proportion of the "upper crust", so maybe more likely to speak "high class" amongst each other, but I doubt it. As iluvu says, context is more important than anything, and for the most part even the poor will know how to properly address someone of higher social status. One of the largest concentrations of overseas Khmer is in my city, and I've never noticed a discernible difference or had trouble understanding the elderly there. Khmer is pretty "standard", but overseas Khmer will obviously insert foreign words if they've been living abroad for a long period of time. That's only normal. Back then accents/dialects were likely way more pronounced than they are now, so you'd expect bigger differences between the various regions or overseas Khmer, but they all understand each other perfectly. As I said, I still think using the term "dialect" is wrong. English has way more pronounced dialects, as does German and in my limited experience, Spanish. Khmer is pretty standard. I know I've personally had way more difficulty understanding some English accents/dialects or German ones than I do Khmer ones.
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Re: Phnom.Penh dialect

Post by Jamie_Lambo »

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:19 pm
taabarang wrote: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:57 pm "i find PP a mixture of Dialects tbh"
As do I.
You and Jamie don't seem to get it. Around 60% of Phnom Penh residents weren't born in the city (wild guess), so of course you're going to hear a multitude of tiny accents/dialects.
that was our point? so what arent we getting exactly?
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Re: Phnom.Penh dialect

Post by Jamie_Lambo »

Bitte_Kein_Lexus wrote: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:19 pm
Jamie_Lambo wrote: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:29 pm ស៊ី - Sii - as far as i know is used for animals eating? lol

most people i know use the word ញ៉ាំ - Nyam - which is also informal and has the multi use of meaning eat + drink

i think the more rural way of saying to eat is - ហូប - Hoob? (Taa might know this?) maybe a shortened down version of - ម្ហូប - Mhoob (food) which is the same spelling just with the added 'M' on the front

i think ពិសា - Piisaa - is a polite formal way of saying to eat + drink, can also mean tasty/delicious
I find it very hard to believe you've never heard Sii being used. Sure, it's technically for animals and children, but friends and siblings use it among themselves all the time, as do family members (older talking to younger member, both lovingly or angrily). When they us it, I sometimes joke that they can sii all they want, but I'll nyam. Cue bursts of laughter at the barang schooling them. Anyways, it's quite a common word but maybe you haven't been listening for it.
maybe youre right, ill keep an ear out for it, but as for now, never really come across it, regularly anyway, 9/10 its always been nyam, maybe people just speak more polite around me lol
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Re: Phnom.Penh dialect

Post by taabarang »

"So it was chrea chorm godah toong?"

Well once again close, it is"kandal trung" (in the middle of the chest).

Very few Khmer children enjoy such an open relationship with their parents as you do with your mother. So, why then do Khmer parents here use such strong language? It is clear not all do. As I stated earlier it is rarely heard. My best guess is that those parents who use it are dirt poor and there is only so much food at meal time.
The ones that pig out are for all practical purposes depriving other family members of a meal. Hence the anger.

A bit off topic but I don't want to create a new thread. Here are some words for "friend" that I have heard in my village.

Klae (usually for men) and m'reak(usually for women) This not ironclad however and the two are frequently joined together to talk to one or more people of either sex.
A commonly heard expression heard around the jars of rice wine is one man calling to another,
"Klae oi, noam knia peuk." Or "Klae oi, peuk ai?"


It's nice to have a new voice join a language topic and BKL has strong opinions which merit thought. While I disagree with some in the main I feel there is much food for thought there. When we talk of dialects one of the qualities I associate with it is accent. This came primarily from my 6,amost 7 years of living in Germany. Where I spoke both Hoch Deutsch and Berlinerish. In fact
acquiring the later dialect by ear was an unintended but useful preparation for learning Khmer in which I am totally illiterate.

So then what is a Phnom Penh accent? What phonetic variations exist that allow one to say He or she must be from The. Big Stink? I think prior to the Khmer Rouge capture and subsequent resettlement there was one. I am going to talk with my mother-in-law who had and still has much extended family there to find out if she thinks there are or were unique linguistic features of Phnom Penh speech.
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