Google cardboard
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StroppyChops
- The Missionary Man
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Re: Google cardboard
Oculus reveals Rift will need a $1,000 PC and possibly $400 for the headgear.
http://www.geek.com/games/oculus-ceo-sa ... e-1623800/
http://www.geek.com/games/oculus-ceo-sa ... e-1623800/
Bodge: This ain't Kansas, and the neighbours ate Toto!
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OrangeDragon
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Re: Google cardboard
Took some time and just getting back to this. But here goes.
Ryoon:
Glad you partially realized that the world of knowledge outside what you believed or were informed of by the OR forums exists. Consider how that may apply to your other beliefs on the subject.
I did however find a pretty nice application of OR lately... marketing. When a company has tons of cash to throw at a marketing initiative, they crazy high costs of OR suddenly seems ok:
http://fleishmanhillard.com/2015/06/tru ... e-message/
Still not really consumer oriented, other than the people at the bars sticking it on their head. Meanwhile Cardboard has expanded to support iOS, and has Apple is working on a iPhone compatible headset. But what do they know... Surely they're fools and the super expensive system FB is releasing is going to be the market leader.
Related anecdote: I gave my best friend's 12 year old son my old cardboard compatible headset wednesday as i'm getting an upgraded one with a magnet click to see how it differs than using a bluetooth controller (as the ideal application should work with both). He was instantly in love with it and pretty much hasn't put it down since. He had wanted to save up his money for an OR, but given the computing needs it was unrealistic and he'd have never gotten one. Now he's saving up for a higher end phone, but is still having a blast on it with his Galaxy S3. In the end his decision to buy a phone upgrade will benefit him in more ways than just the VR, and have been the more sensible purchase.
Unrelated: It was amusing to watch how fast he launched to coolest kid on the block with all the kids (and a few of the parents) asking for a turn with it. I've had 8 separate requests for links to where I got it from because of that night.
Ryoon:
Glad you partially realized that the world of knowledge outside what you believed or were informed of by the OR forums exists. Consider how that may apply to your other beliefs on the subject.
I did however find a pretty nice application of OR lately... marketing. When a company has tons of cash to throw at a marketing initiative, they crazy high costs of OR suddenly seems ok:
http://fleishmanhillard.com/2015/06/tru ... e-message/
Still not really consumer oriented, other than the people at the bars sticking it on their head. Meanwhile Cardboard has expanded to support iOS, and has Apple is working on a iPhone compatible headset. But what do they know... Surely they're fools and the super expensive system FB is releasing is going to be the market leader.
Related anecdote: I gave my best friend's 12 year old son my old cardboard compatible headset wednesday as i'm getting an upgraded one with a magnet click to see how it differs than using a bluetooth controller (as the ideal application should work with both). He was instantly in love with it and pretty much hasn't put it down since. He had wanted to save up his money for an OR, but given the computing needs it was unrealistic and he'd have never gotten one. Now he's saving up for a higher end phone, but is still having a blast on it with his Galaxy S3. In the end his decision to buy a phone upgrade will benefit him in more ways than just the VR, and have been the more sensible purchase.
Unrelated: It was amusing to watch how fast he launched to coolest kid on the block with all the kids (and a few of the parents) asking for a turn with it. I've had 8 separate requests for links to where I got it from because of that night.
Re: Google cardboard
1 The price for the whole rig if you start from scratch ( computer + controller + oculus ) is around 1500$, expensive yes but not really what I would call out of reach. Especially considering the experience.
2 Oculus will not be the first system to hit the market, HTC will start to sell this year
http://www.htcvr.com/
The spect seems to be roughly equivalent.
You also have the project morpheuse that will be availlable with the playstation 4 and will be less expensive
3 yes yes the card board is good, I am just telling you (very slowly, will pointing to the word written quite big on the billboard) for the XXX time that the experience offer by the card board is mile away from the oculus in the prototype version. The prototype version being less good that the customer by an order of magnitude.
So one more painful time .
NOW : VR is limited to :
- the phone solution which is easy to use and fun but is limited and will not really improved significantly.
- the DK2 which is a prototype, is not easy to use and is relatively expensive (350$ ).
So of course NOW between this and a plug and play solution investing time in the card board make a lot of sense.
IN LESS THAN ONE YEAR :
- the phone solution will still be more or less the same, the power of the phone being limited .
- Real VR solution will be available. PLUG AND PLAY VR solution , solution that all the tester agreed are fare better than the current oculus prototype.
So I am also suggesting that developing for a small market now (the card board being still a small market) make less sense than investing this time to develop for the future VR solution .
Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying that there is no market for the cardboard I am just telling that one market will grow way more slowly than the other.
2 Oculus will not be the first system to hit the market, HTC will start to sell this year
http://www.htcvr.com/
The spect seems to be roughly equivalent.
You also have the project morpheuse that will be availlable with the playstation 4 and will be less expensive
3 yes yes the card board is good, I am just telling you (very slowly, will pointing to the word written quite big on the billboard) for the XXX time that the experience offer by the card board is mile away from the oculus in the prototype version. The prototype version being less good that the customer by an order of magnitude.
So one more painful time .
NOW : VR is limited to :
- the phone solution which is easy to use and fun but is limited and will not really improved significantly.
- the DK2 which is a prototype, is not easy to use and is relatively expensive (350$ ).
So of course NOW between this and a plug and play solution investing time in the card board make a lot of sense.
IN LESS THAN ONE YEAR :
- the phone solution will still be more or less the same, the power of the phone being limited .
- Real VR solution will be available. PLUG AND PLAY VR solution , solution that all the tester agreed are fare better than the current oculus prototype.
So I am also suggesting that developing for a small market now (the card board being still a small market) make less sense than investing this time to develop for the future VR solution .
Don't misunderstand me, I am not saying that there is no market for the cardboard I am just telling that one market will grow way more slowly than the other.
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OrangeDragon
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Re: Google cardboard
The percentage people people who will have that powerful of a computer are a severe minority... thus when speaking of the OR it almost HAS to be spoken of as the full package. Doing otherwise is either misleading or naive.
You know that the next gen phones are expected to be 4k right? Not sure why you seem to think phones aren't advancing. In fact they're surpassing moore's law, getting thinner stronger and cheaper each year. In many cases more than double. With VR becoming a popular concept and the phone manufacturers getting in on it, then you'll see a much harder push to phones specifically geared towards meeting its needs. The number of people who spend more time with their phones now than their computers for their digital needs has become a majority leaning on phones.
I also don't get why you think the phone solution is the small market? Hell, samsung gear is already a released consumer product and on shelves. The cardboard app has 1,000,000 - 5,000,000 installs (per google play store) and the app library for it is surging. The more apps available, the more it will be something people use, the more it will grow in popularity. The phone industry showed us this to be true with how few windows phones sell vs android/apple. People want to buy what's working, not what has great promise to work later.
As for price point... think back to when the Wii vs PS vs XBox battle happened. Only one of those products couldn't be kept on shelves... the Wii. An inferior platform in every respect other than price.
You know that the next gen phones are expected to be 4k right? Not sure why you seem to think phones aren't advancing. In fact they're surpassing moore's law, getting thinner stronger and cheaper each year. In many cases more than double. With VR becoming a popular concept and the phone manufacturers getting in on it, then you'll see a much harder push to phones specifically geared towards meeting its needs. The number of people who spend more time with their phones now than their computers for their digital needs has become a majority leaning on phones.
I also don't get why you think the phone solution is the small market? Hell, samsung gear is already a released consumer product and on shelves. The cardboard app has 1,000,000 - 5,000,000 installs (per google play store) and the app library for it is surging. The more apps available, the more it will be something people use, the more it will grow in popularity. The phone industry showed us this to be true with how few windows phones sell vs android/apple. People want to buy what's working, not what has great promise to work later.
As for price point... think back to when the Wii vs PS vs XBox battle happened. Only one of those products couldn't be kept on shelves... the Wii. An inferior platform in every respect other than price.
Re: Google cardboard
OrangeDragon wrote:The percentage people people who will have that powerful of a computer are a severe minority... thus when speaking of the OR it almost HAS to be spoken of as the full package. Doing otherwise is either misleading or naive.
Yes around 1500$, I fail to see why you deem that too expensive. once again the experience offer is not on the same scale as the what you can have with your phone.
You know that the next gen phones are expected to be 4k right? Not sure why you seem to think phones aren't advancing. In fact they're surpassing moore's law, getting thinner stronger and cheaper each year. In many cases more than double. With VR becoming a popular concept and the phone manufacturers getting in on it, then you'll see a much harder push to phones specifically geared towards meeting its needs. The number of people who spend more time with their phones now than their computers for their digital needs has become a majority leaning on phones.
The screen is not the problem, the oculus commercial version will have 2160 by 1200 definition which is kind of low, even like this you need a 1000$ computer to be able to make the VR work. A phone with a 4K would not have the power necessary to take advantage of the displays. Even laptop are not powerful enough to make the oculus work (expect some gamer brand and you are looking at a 2000$ + laptop ).
How long do you think will be necessary before a phone has the power of a 1000$ gaming desktop or a 5 pound 2500 to 4000$ gaming laptop, knowing that the power necessary for running low def VR ?
I also don't get why you think the phone solution is the small market? Hell, samsung gear is already a released consumer product and on shelves. The cardboard app has 1,000,000 - 5,000,000 installs (per google play store) and the app library for it is surging. The more apps available, the more it will be something people use, the more it will grow in popularity. The phone industry showed us this to be true with how few windows phones sell vs android/apple. People want to buy what's working, not what has great promise to work later.
Once again I am not saying :
- that the phone market is none existent
- that the phone market will not develop.
I am saying :
Taking into account the fact that
- the experience offer by VR on a phone and VR with a powerfull desktop are not on the same level.
- Currently the only plug and play solution is the phone. The oculus is a dev kit and necessitating adaptation for everything and without real content. In one year the VR desptop market will be plug and play.
I am just saying that the VR market will go BOUM . Differential growth one will grow much faster than the other.
Funny thing the VR fan are not happy AT ALL with oculus rightnow. The suspect that oculus is holding back on premium solution and go for the mass market in part because samsung do not want to kill the phone market.
As for price point... think back to when the Wii vs PS vs XBox battle happened. Only one of those products couldn't be kept on shelves... the Wii. An inferior platform in every respect other than price.
Yes the phone is the inferior platform here. Can do gadget application but nothing serious especially for the workplace or serious gaming. Seriously OD I am not a gamer (really not) but even I have to admite that VR game are way way above the 2D version, same for the potential for work application.
And please do not tell me that the gaming market on the phone is quite consequent not the same thing at all/
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OrangeDragon
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Re: Google cardboard
When it comes to capabilities, what are you referring to? Video processing power I assume? Phones are crazy powerful in this respect actually... More than you're giving them credit for. The Tegra 4 chip coming from NVidia for example; Cortex A15 core, 72 GeForce GPU cores. 6x stronger than the previous version.
If you mean CPU power the Cortex A15 is almost absurd... Even when used in server applications... Which is happening. A server CPU coupled with a massive GPU... Where is this shortcoming you keep talking about?
If you read you'll find this has been already released to android os (Project Shield) driving the world first... Ever... Game console pushing 4k over HDMI.
If you mean CPU power the Cortex A15 is almost absurd... Even when used in server applications... Which is happening. A server CPU coupled with a massive GPU... Where is this shortcoming you keep talking about?
If you read you'll find this has been already released to android os (Project Shield) driving the world first... Ever... Game console pushing 4k over HDMI.
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OrangeDragon
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Re: Google cardboard
As for mobile gaming... couldn't quite make out what you were trying to say there but:
http://techcrunch.com/2014/11/02/is-mob ... re-gaming/Mobile is set to outpace the console industry in terms of revenue in 2015 according to Newzoo. Yes, you heard right. Tiny little app games that may or may not be free to play are set to eclipse mighty console in terms of dollars and cents. And moreover to grow a full 30% beyond that into 2017, which pretty much eats PC gaming too.
When you consider the money involved this is pretty staggering news, but even more staggering is what it says about reach. Console and PC games are often $40-$60 a pop, still seeking that premium dollar and working to get high ARPU. Mobile games are diminutive by comparison, with a $5 price point considered a big deal, and the usual value being more like $2. For mobile to eclipse premium products so comprehensively means there are potentially 20-30 times as many mobile game players out there than on older platforms.
Re: Google cardboard
1 Phone are powerful in regard of what they are used for. The point is that they are nowhere near the power needed for VR.
You can use the oculus with a laptop but you need something like this :
http://www.sagernotebook.com/Gaming-Not ... 773-S.html
or
With both those laptop if you plan to play something like alien isolation or elite dangerous you need to be plug on the sector, the battery can not deliver enough power for allowing the GPU to go full throttle.
I am sure that phone are powerful but not THAT powerful and they will not be for a long time.
Please keep in mind the the spec requiere for the oculus is for the MINIMUM standard experience.
The resolution will go up, the FPS will go up (75 is the minium for confort), the FOV will go up. Trouble is even if it was possible to up the spec know you would need a 5000$ computer to run the VR helmet.
2 Gamin on mobile is quite ok. People have the phone on them all the time and can often play for 5 minutes.
VR on mobile is another matter, you have to big trouble :
- the experience is not the same meaning you are speaking of two different thing.
- you do not have the ease of use for VR mobile as for gaming mobile. you need at least an helmet and if you are a little serious in the use an input system.
You can use the oculus with a laptop but you need something like this :
http://www.sagernotebook.com/Gaming-Not ... 773-S.html
or
With both those laptop if you plan to play something like alien isolation or elite dangerous you need to be plug on the sector, the battery can not deliver enough power for allowing the GPU to go full throttle.
I am sure that phone are powerful but not THAT powerful and they will not be for a long time.
Please keep in mind the the spec requiere for the oculus is for the MINIMUM standard experience.
The resolution will go up, the FPS will go up (75 is the minium for confort), the FOV will go up. Trouble is even if it was possible to up the spec know you would need a 5000$ computer to run the VR helmet.
2 Gamin on mobile is quite ok. People have the phone on them all the time and can often play for 5 minutes.
VR on mobile is another matter, you have to big trouble :
- the experience is not the same meaning you are speaking of two different thing.
- you do not have the ease of use for VR mobile as for gaming mobile. you need at least an helmet and if you are a little serious in the use an input system.
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StroppyChops
- The Missionary Man
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Re: Google cardboard
Sigh. You -need- to be right about this, don't you? Did you even read the link below? That's the word from Oculus via Geek.com.ryoon wrote:Trouble is even if it was possible to up the spec know you would need a 5000$ computer to run the VR helmet.
StroppyChops wrote:Oculus reveals Rift will need a $1,000 PC and possibly $400 for the headgear.
http://www.geek.com/games/oculus-ceo-sa ... e-1623800/
Bodge: This ain't Kansas, and the neighbours ate Toto!
Re: Google cardboard
You need a 1000$ computer for running the oculus as it is now. But if you were to increase the resolution, fov or FPS the power necessary would explode exponentially.StroppyChops wrote:Sigh. You -need- to be right about this, don't you? Did you even read the link below? That's the word from Oculus via Geek.com.ryoon wrote:Trouble is even if it was possible to up the spec know you would need a 5000$ computer to run the VR helmet.StroppyChops wrote:Oculus reveals Rift will need a $1,000 PC and possibly $400 for the headgear.
http://www.geek.com/games/oculus-ceo-sa ... e-1623800/
The point is even when and if the phone go up to the level of a 1000$ computer, by then the VR helmet will necessitate much more power due to the increase in FOV, FPS and resolution. This was to explain to OD that on the VR field there is still a need for MORE power, MUCH MORE power.
Take video game and watching movie, the only serious disadvantage of the phone is the size of the screen , power wise they can do adequately with the current level. But for VR the home computer are still barely adequate and will still be for many years. The phone can not start to close the gap until the computer reach the stage where more power is nice but not really necessary.
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