Work Permits in Cambodia for Business Owners

Whether you're a working stiff or a business owner yourself, this is the place to discuss all aspects of financing your drinking habit ;-)

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Re: Work Permits in Cambodia for Business Owners

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eriksank wrote:
Jamie_Lambo wrote:...would starting up a business of any kind require a work permit or is it just for certain businesses
are there different types of work permits? ... what are the basic laws around the work permits?
The internet is certainly a strong force of change in that domain. The core question about regulations is always: enforceability. In other words, if the state is incapable of enforcing particular regulations, such regulations simply do not count. In comparison to that, all other questions are moot.

For example, Google and Facebook clearly recruit advertisers in Cambodia and charge advertisement fees. In that sense, they do operate here. They never requested any license, they have no office here, no staff, no work permits, pay no taxes, or anything at all. They pretty much ignore any of that. If you check on their website, airbnb.com has an entire population of property owners and tenants in Cambodia. Same situation. Regulations do not apply, simply because the state would not be capable of enforcing them anyway.

If enforcement is sufficiently credible, people will usually choose to abide by such regulations. If it is obvious that they will catch you someday, breaking the rules, you could as well pony up right away.

If the regulations are easily circumvented, however, people will probably not abide by them. This is also pretty much what the Cambodians themselves think about regulations. Cambodia is a country where everybody circumvents the regulations all the time, if need be, by bribing someone.

At the same time, the internet is a strong force that consistently erodes the ability of governments to enforce regulations. As John Gilmore famously quipped: The internet treats censorship as a defect and routes around it. Regulations always take the form of censorship on the internet. Requiring business licenses may actually be an outdated practice, because on the internet it would translate into threatening to shut down someone's e-commerce site in absence of one. That threat has no credibility at all, as we can see that the notorious Pirate Bay website -- how many times did they try to shut it down? -- is still operating today.
That's all very well, but, if Google, Facebook or airbnb opened an office here with foreign staff they would need work permits.
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Re: Work Permits in Cambodia for Business Owners

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Username Taken wrote:That's all very well, but, if Google, Facebook or airbnb opened an office here with foreign staff they would need work permits.
Yes, sure. But then again, they haven't, and they don't intend to. That is very relevant to the issue.

An office is location in which information is processed. It has pretty much the same definition in terms of functionality as the internet itself. Can you see something like a trend of not opening physical offices at all? There are clearly advantages in doing things in that way. The conclusion is therefore: organize your business in such a way that you don't have to.

The internet and pre-internet government regulations do not mix well, and it is obvious that it is the internet that will win.
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Re: Work Permits in Cambodia for Business Owners

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eriksank wrote: they haven't, and they don't intend to. That is very relevant to the issue.
I'd have to disagree with that, but not 100%.

This thread is of relevance to expats currently on the ground, as well as those on their way.
Many of them are working in the physical work rather than the cyber world that you seem to work in. However, here's where the not 100% comes in, there are some who do make their living from cyber space.

If you are a foreigner living here on a Business Visa (or whatever it's called now) you require a Work Permit regardless of where you derive your income (and that seems to include pensions).
On the upside, I believe they are looking into these issues.

All expats starting to work online is not the answer, they will still be extorted out of their money.

:evil: :evil:
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Re: Work Permits in Cambodia for Business Owners

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Username Taken wrote:Many of them are working in the physical work rather than the cyber world that you seem to work in.
There are not that many jobs left where people can do physical work. Furthermore, who would hire an expat for that? Most people process information. Therefore, most have migrated or are migrating to the cyberworld, partially or fully.
Username Taken wrote:If you are a foreigner living here on a Business Visa (or whatever it's called now) you require a Work Permit regardless of where you derive your income (and that seems to include pensions).
If that were really the case, they would just include that in the visa.

I do not believe that there are more than 10 000 foreigners who work in Cambodia. At $100/work permit, that means 1 million dollars in yearly revenue. Even at the level of Cambodia, that is totally peanuts. I am quite interested to see a foreign old-age pensioner being thoroughly shaken down for such issue. The cost associated to such scandal would be several orders of magnitude higher than the paltry 1 million of above. It may even cause them to scrap the system altogether.
Username Taken wrote:All expats starting to work online is not the answer, they will still be extorted out of their money.
As far as I know, they are not interested in "extorting" facebook, google, or airbnb out of their money.

The very fact that a person just happens to live somewhere is no reason to harass him, anywhere in the world. He could be born rich and be living of his inheritance. Bill Gates, for example, no longer works for money. Therefore, it is a wrong expectation that people necessarily have to work. Furthermore, a claim of being a rich heir owning lots of money is impossible to verify. Anybody could fabricate a statement that says that a particular finance company in Barbados manages 100 gazillion dollars for them.

In my impression, they will do just like in other countries, and expect foreigners visibly working in offices, factories, and other workplaces , i.e. participating in the local economy, to have a work permit, while leaving everybody else alone. Randomly picking a foreigner from the streets in order to ask what he lives off, sounds so unlikely, that I do not believe for a second that they would ever do it.
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Re: Work Permits in Cambodia for Business Owners

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Username Taken wrote:.
If you are a foreigner living here on a Business Visa (or whatever it's called now) you require a Work Permit regardless of where you derive your income (and that seems to include pensions).
On the upside, I believe they are looking into these issues.

:evil: :evil:
Now called an "Ordinary visa" - don't know why they changed the name just before they decided to apply work permit laws. But that seems to provide an out, since it's no longer a "business " visa. Calling it a "resident" or "longstay" visa would be more correct, and then you could either be allowed to work or not allowed to work. But that is probably too logical.
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Re: Work Permits in Cambodia for Business Owners

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I thought there were 2 requirements for people working here:

1. work permit

2. residence permit, which you can only get after 18 days, and your tax rate is reflected in this

afaik, there is no such thing as a residency visa now, and i doubt it will ever happen.

Probably there will be a working visa and residency permit, and a residency permit without the permission to work, so if you get caught working, you're in trouble.

That is almost the universal model, and it is that way because it's easier to police/control.
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Re: Work Permits in Cambodia for Business Owners

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We again have that caveman twat gmjs telling people on 440 to obey the law and get a work permit.

This is the same 'principled' genius that said 85% of teachers are paedos.

For some reason, he never said anything about the hundreds of unlicensed lawyers practising in the country

I suppose principles only apply when they don't affect one's buddies.
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Re: Work Permits in Cambodia for Business Owners

Post by vladimir »

eriksank wrote: Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:09 pm
Username Taken wrote:Many of them are working in the physical work rather than the cyber world that you seem to work in.
There are not that many jobs left where people can do physical work.
Mmm...not so sure erik...do you mean physical labour or presence?

Loads of physical labourers still around, and many jobs require a physical presence.

Teachers, doctors, sales, hotel staff, security and police, motos etc.

In fact, just about the ONLY job where there may not be a physical presence is in IT or strongly IT-related fields, I think, and that sector may be expanding, but I doubt it's going to eclipse the other one for a few years yet.

Re tracking online workers, it will be very simple, most internet providers would be only to willing to comply with any new state directive either openly or behind closed doors.

Anybody that thinks that the govt doesn't have the ability to monitor it is living in a fool's paradise.

And making an example of one or two people will get the rest of the chickens' feathers ruffled pretty quickly.

When the economic gains are enticing enough, be assured it will happen.
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Re: Work Permits in Cambodia for Business Owners

Post by eriksank »

vladimir wrote: Wed May 03, 2017 5:23 am... many jobs require a physical presence. Teachers, doctors, sales, hotel staff, security ...
It is perfectly possible to do each of these jobs to a large extent remotely. We would have to go through these jobs one by one, though. The devil is in the details.
vladimir wrote: Wed May 03, 2017 5:23 amIn fact, just about the ONLY job where there may not be a physical presence is in IT or strongly IT-related fields, I think, and that sector may be expanding, but I doubt it's going to eclipse the other one for a few years yet.
All jobs that consist in processing information are like that. It means that only jobs that consist in manipulating physical objects are not like that. There are not that many of those jobs left.
vladimir wrote: Wed May 03, 2017 5:23 amRe tracking online workers, it will be very simple, most internet providers would be only to willing to comply with any new state directive either openly or behind closed doors. Anybody that thinks that the govt doesn't have the ability to monitor it is living in a fool's paradise.
Go to Alphabay. They are selling heroine and cocaine there, right now, at this very moment. This is the alphabay onion: http://pwoah7foa6au2pul.onion. If any govt were capable of monitoring buyers and sellers on Alphabay, why don't they just do it?
vladimir wrote: Wed May 03, 2017 5:23 amAnd making an example of one or two people will get the rest of the chickens' feathers ruffled pretty quickly.
Well, the FBI managed to shut down Silk Road, after having their entire cybercrime team working on the case for three years. Silk Road was actually really easy to shut down, in comparison with what is floating around on the tor network today.

Headcount or other physical resources do not matter on the internet. It is the most intelligent side that wins the conflict, while it is a well-known fact that intelligent people hate working for governments or corporations. In this link, you will find a letter by the DAO hacker, who extracted $150 million out of the main Ethereum consortium. There is also an entire armada taking the banks to the cleaners. The next global economic crisis may very well be caused by hackers who will have made a big bank collapse, while siphoning off hundreds of billions of dollars in the process. To tell you the truth, that outcome suits me absolutely fine, because I simply do not like the system. Seriously, we are on the eve of the next French Revolution. Since all legitimacy emanates from the laws of God, it is obvious that the system has now lost all possible legitimacy.
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Re: Work Permits in Cambodia for Business Owners

Post by Jamie_Lambo »

eriksank wrote: Wed May 03, 2017 8:03 am
vladimir wrote: Wed May 03, 2017 5:23 am... many jobs require a physical presence. Teachers, doctors, sales, hotel staff, security ...
It is perfectly possible to do each of these jobs to a large extent remotely. We would have to go through these jobs one by one, though. The devil is in the details.
vladimir wrote: Wed May 03, 2017 5:23 amIn fact, just about the ONLY job where there may not be a physical presence is in IT or strongly IT-related fields, I think, and that sector may be expanding, but I doubt it's going to eclipse the other one for a few years yet.
All jobs that consist in processing information are like that. It means that only jobs that consist in manipulating physical objects are not like that. There are not that many of those jobs left.
vladimir wrote: Wed May 03, 2017 5:23 amRe tracking online workers, it will be very simple, most internet providers would be only to willing to comply with any new state directive either openly or behind closed doors. Anybody that thinks that the govt doesn't have the ability to monitor it is living in a fool's paradise.
Go to Alphabay. They are selling heroine and cocaine there, right now, at this very moment. This is the alphabay onion: http://pwoah7foa6au2pul.onion. If any govt were capable of monitoring buyers and sellers on Alphabay, why don't they just do it?
vladimir wrote: Wed May 03, 2017 5:23 amAnd making an example of one or two people will get the rest of the chickens' feathers ruffled pretty quickly.
Well, the FBI managed to shut down Silk Road, after having their entire cybercrime team working on the case for three years. Silk Road was actually really easy to shut down, in comparison with what is floating around on the tor network today.

Headcount or other physical resources do not matter on the internet. It is the most intelligent side that wins the conflict, while it is a well-known fact that intelligent people hate working for governments or corporations. In this link, you will find a letter by the DAO hacker, who extracted $150 million out of the main Ethereum consortium. There is also an entire armada taking the banks to the cleaners. The next global economic crisis may very well be caused by hackers who will have made a big bank collapse, while siphoning off hundreds of billions of dollars in the process. To tell you the truth, that outcome suits me absolutely fine, because I simply do not like the system. Seriously, we are on the eve of the next French Revolution. Since all legitimacy emanates from the laws of God, it is obvious that the system has now lost all possible legitimacy.
i think me and you touched on this on another thread recently,
i do think your view on IT jobs vs. jobs that require manual labour are really no where near to the point that you think they are
yes people teach over skype now, (but you try teaching younger kids with the tiny attention span via skype!)
yes you can get a medical diagnosis online, (but what about physical examinations that require touch, operations etc)
yes there is a hotel in Japan run primarily by robots, (1 hotel out of millions, this is a long way off becoming a 'thing' and is more of an attraction than practical)
yes security can be done remotely (CCTV etc), (but whos going scare off potential thieves/chase them down, event security, police etc)
etc.

you live in a Hi-Tech world as it seems from your post, but there are so many manual labouring jobs that technology wont take over any time soon, if at all, for example...
there will always be work in Construction, Beauty Salons, Restaurants, Bars, Hospitals, Schools, Police/Armed Forces etc.

as i say your perception is way off,
i think one of the main ones you have a strong argument for is sale/marketing,
in a world where online shopping is killing high street stalls, corner shops, markets etc
as everything can be searched for and bought online by the click of a button,
but there are so many jobs that you seem to be oblivious to/take for granted
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