Gateway 2 Khmer

Have questions or resources regarding Khmer Culture? This forum is all about the Kingdom of Cambodia's culture. Khmer language, Cambodian weddings, French influence, Cambodian architecture, Cambodian politics, Khmer customs, etc? This is the place. Living in Cambodia can cause you to experience a whole new level of culture shock, so feel free to talk about all things related to the Khmer people, and their traditions. And if you want something in Khmer script translated into English, you will probably find what you need.
Samouth
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Re: Gateway 2 Khmer

Post by Samouth »

Username Taken wrote:You clearly missed my point.

If you want to speak. Learn how to listen.

If you want to write. Learn ABC, then learn how to read.

Think about it Samouth.
My kids are fluent in two languages and they wouldn't have a clue what Present Continuous is. They just know how to structure sentences. With many thanks to Cartoon Network, a big hat-tip to Ben 10, and special thanks to Disney Channel, etc.

You want to speak English, learn how to listen, watch tv.
I really can't agree with you. Right, learning how to listen is good, so that you won't lose in conversation, and i also believe that you can pick up some words and learn somethings, but it doesn't really help you with speaking. I still believe that in order to speak English well you have to know grammar and vast vocabularies. :)
បើសិនធ្វើចេះ ចេះឲ្យគេកោត បើសិនធ្វើឆោត ឆោតឲ្យគេអាណិត។

If you know a lot, know enough to make them respect you, if you are stupid, be stupid enough so they can pity you.
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StroppyChops
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Re: Gateway 2 Khmer

Post by StroppyChops »

If you're serious about knowing why teaching grammar rules can be a bad thing, have a look here as a starting point: http://www.mikeswan.co.uk/elt-applied-l ... easons.htm

Primarily it's testable - and therefore we can create absolute BS courses like CELTA based on grammar, and market them as a product.

Too little grammar is also a bad thing, but UT is right, the reason grammar is taught so heavily is that it's now an industry - let's be clear, grammar is NOT language fluency. I taught in China where year 12 students can cite grammar rules better than anyone I've met, yet they can't express themselves simply in English. It was the same in India. As an experienced (real) English teacher with a Masters degree, I honestly don't care how many rules someone has learned if they haven't yet learned to speak the language and be able to hold a conversation.
Bodge: This ain't Kansas, and the neighbours ate Toto!
Samouth
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Re: Gateway 2 Khmer

Post by Samouth »

StroppyChops wrote:If you're serious about knowing why teaching grammar rules can be a bad thing, have a look here as a starting point: http://www.mikeswan.co.uk/elt-applied-l ... easons.htm

Primarily it's testable - and therefore we can create absolute BS courses like CELTA based on grammar, and market them as a product.

Too little grammar is also a bad thing, but UT is right, the reason grammar is taught so heavily is that it's now an industry - let's be clear, grammar is NOT language fluency. I taught in China where year 12 students can cite grammar rules better than anyone I've met, yet they can't express themselves simply in English. It was the same in India. As an experienced (real) English teacher with a Masters degree, I honestly don't care how many rules someone has learned if they haven't yet learned to speak the language and be able to hold a conversation.
Nice article. I think i learned more about grammar from my teacher and i improved my speaking skill by myself.
បើសិនធ្វើចេះ ចេះឲ្យគេកោត បើសិនធ្វើឆោត ឆោតឲ្យគេអាណិត។

If you know a lot, know enough to make them respect you, if you are stupid, be stupid enough so they can pity you.
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Re: Gateway 2 Khmer

Post by taabarang »

Samouth wrote:
Username Taken wrote:You clearly missed my point.
I really can't agree with you. Right, learning how to listen is good, so that you won't lose in conversation, and i also believe that you can pick up some words and learn somethings, but it doesn't really help you with speaking. I still believe that in order to speak English well you have to know grammar and vast vocabularies. :)
"so that you want lose in conversaation...." I assume you meant "get lost in a conversation." As for the rest of your language acquisition theory, i.e. that listening is not helpful in speaking, I suggest you write a thesis on this revolutionary approach. And who said you can't learn grammar by listening and speaking. Some hopeless Cambodian teacher of English I'll bet.
As my old Cajun bait seller used to say, "I opes you luck.
Samouth
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Re: Gateway 2 Khmer

Post by Samouth »

taabarang wrote:
Samouth wrote:
Username Taken wrote:You clearly missed my point.
I really can't agree with you. Right, learning how to listen is good, so that you won't lose in conversation, and i also believe that you can pick up some words and learn somethings, but it doesn't really help you with speaking. I still believe that in order to speak English well you have to know grammar and vast vocabularies. :)
"so that you want lose in conversation...." I assume you meant "get lost in a conversation." As for the rest of your language acquisition theory, i.e. that listening is not helpful in speaking, I suggest you write a thesis on this revolutionary approach. And who said you can't learn grammar by listening and speaking. Some hopeless Cambodian teacher of English I'll bet.
I didn't write (You want lose in conversation, You won't lose in conversation). i also didn't say that you can't learn grammar by listening and speaking. You still can learn, but not that much.
បើសិនធ្វើចេះ ចេះឲ្យគេកោត បើសិនធ្វើឆោត ឆោតឲ្យគេអាណិត។

If you know a lot, know enough to make them respect you, if you are stupid, be stupid enough so they can pity you.
taabarang
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Re: Gateway 2 Khmer

Post by taabarang »

Write the thesis, I am learning Cambodian by listening and speaking just as I learned German. You sentence " so that you won't lose in conversation," is meaningless unless you consider conversation a debate, but even then awkward.
As my old Cajun bait seller used to say, "I opes you luck.
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Jamie_Lambo
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Re: Gateway 2 Khmer

Post by Jamie_Lambo »

Username Taken wrote:You clearly missed my point.

If you want to speak. Learn how to listen.

If you want to write. Learn ABC, then learn how to read.

Think about it Samouth.
My kids are fluent in two languages and they wouldn't have a clue what Present Continuous is. They just know how to structure sentences. With many thanks to Cartoon Network, a big hat-tip to Ben 10, and special thanks to Disney Channel, etc.

You want to speak English, learn how to listen, watch tv.
i have to vouch to UT here, i can speak fairly good khmer but i cant read or write khmer, or know anything about the grammer other than the structure of the sentence bases on copying what ive heard before, i learn khmer by listening to my friends speaking khmer and listening to khmer songs and learning from them, ive never been to a khmer school or had anyone sit me down and try to teach me khmer and khmer grammer (something which im starting to do myself actually to extend my knowledge)
how did/do people learn a language when there arent/wasnt schools? it was all word of mouth, it was the original version of teaching, speaking and listening, not reading and writing, i know a fair few khmers that cant read or write khmer lanugage and no nothing of the grammer, they just know from being brought up with the spoken lanugage
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Samouth
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Re: Gateway 2 Khmer

Post by Samouth »

Jamie_Lambo wrote:
Username Taken wrote:You clearly missed my point.

If you want to speak. Learn how to listen.

If you want to write. Learn ABC, then learn how to read.

Think about it Samouth.
My kids are fluent in two languages and they wouldn't have a clue what Present Continuous is. They just know how to structure sentences. With many thanks to Cartoon Network, a big hat-tip to Ben 10, and special thanks to Disney Channel, etc.

You want to speak English, learn how to listen, watch tv.
i have to vouch to UT here, i can speak fairly good khmer but i cant read or write khmer, or know anything about the grammer other than the structure of the sentence bases on copying what ive heard before, i learn khmer by listening to my friends speaking khmer and listening to khmer songs and learning from them, ive never been to a khmer school or had anyone sit me down and try to teach me khmer and khmer grammer (something which im starting to do myself actually to extend my knowledge)
how did/do people learn a language when there arent/wasnt schools? it was all word of mouth, it was the original version of teaching, speaking and listening, not reading and writing, i know a fair few khmers that cant read or write khmer lanugage and no nothing of the grammer, they just know from being brought up with the spoken lanugage
Poor those Cambodians who can't read and write. As i said above since they are the native speaker of a specific language, so they don't have to learn grammar of that language, they acquired it naturally. However i might be wrong about this point, because i don't feel that i have learned English grammar via listening to native speaker.
បើសិនធ្វើចេះ ចេះឲ្យគេកោត បើសិនធ្វើឆោត ឆោតឲ្យគេអាណិត។

If you know a lot, know enough to make them respect you, if you are stupid, be stupid enough so they can pity you.
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Jacobincambodia
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Re: Gateway 2 Khmer

Post by Jacobincambodia »

Grammar is absolutely essential to learning Khmer! I don't know where I'd be if I didn't know some grammar and that included learning some rules with my tutor. I think there is a balance to all of it though. For me, I spend too much time in the books and not enough time speaking.
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Jacobincambodia
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Re: Gateway 2 Khmer

Post by Jacobincambodia »

Also, I'm really excited to start Gateway 2 Khmer. I took the assessment and they are putting me in at level 5. I was shocked!
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