"How many houses in your village have built walls in the lower half of their wooden houses ? and own a $2000 bike? "

Concerning walls the answer is lots of people. Because illegal logging has driven up the price of wood cement is cheaper. I've no idea about Moto prices nor who owns what nor do I really care. I have no idea on the exact number of farmers who have lost land. I only know that when their sons marry land is forclosed by financial institutions. The loan was for the bride price.

"Also, any idea if the MFI loans are mainly only handed out by the CPP chiefs? and only if you vote for them?"

I do not believe that is the case. As a barang locals do not confide in me about their personal affairs. I think that they were somewhat hurt that I made it clear that I had no intention of being considered" First National Barang."

taabarang wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:14 am "How many houses in your village have built walls in the lower half of their wooden houses ? and own a $2000 bike? "

Concerning walls the answer is lots of people. Because illegal logging has driven up the price of wood cement is cheaper. I've no idea about Moto prices nor who owns what nor do I really care. I have no idea on the exact number of farmers who have lost land. I only know that when their sons marry land is forclosed by financial institutions. The loan was for the bride price.

"Also, any idea if the MFI loans are mainly only handed out by the CPP chiefs? and only if you vote for them?"

I do not believe that is the case. As a barang locals do not confide in me about their personal affairs. I think that they were somewhat hurt that I made it clear that I had no intention of being considered" First National Barang."

Cheers Mr T, now you come to mention it, of course there would be many houses with brick and concrete downstairs. It certainly is cheaper than wood nowadays and those wooden stilt houses have pretty much a max of about 7 years I have been told. Termites mainly I think. Do they paint them every few years? I heard they normally just give them one coat and leave them till they need to build a new one?
So, not really any indication of being middle class there.

As far as my lower end of $2 p day, it seems amazingly that some agencies work it out at that re. K's link. I would still expect a monthly wage of about $600 to be a proper middle class wage in PP, and around $2-300 in the countryside - so about $10 a day coming into the family. What do you think?

I wouldn't be surprised if some commune chiefs were using MFIs to win votes, but I think your right, that in general it doesn't happen. Well 50% sure.

First concerning the posts. I have visited two villagers where houses were supported by massive posts 3 meters in height. They were untreated, were naturally resistant to insects including termites and the house had been standing for three generations. The trees, whose name I regrettably never learned are simply no more to be found. (probably why I never bothered to learn the name.). Fewer stilt homes are being built as far as I can tell. More cheaply built out outhouses are being constructed and kitchens are moving indoors and most bathing still takes place around a well. They still make the entrance whenever possible on the east side or facing the road, but never on the west since that is where ghosts can enter.

I really have no idea what reasonable guess to give for a realistic income for a middle class Cambodian family would be. But it s most certainly NOT $2/day. Perhaps that much per person per day for a family of five. But I admit that is an uninformed guess. But it does somewhat coincide
with your estimate. There are people making good money in the villages, but they are not poor farmers and the family has a connection or they have a business such as a gas station or someone in the family has an occupation like buying and selling gold in PP or SR.

As taa says, the wooden houses can last waaay more than seven years. It all comes down to the type of wood used. The good stuff is naturally resistant to moisture and termites. However, that same wood is now prohibitively expensive, so people build with cheaper wood that hasn't even been dried.

As for villages: they've certainly gotten MUCH richer of the years. Place sI used to go to had no electricity then eventually got it from 6pm-9pm, then eventually round the clock. Some desolate roads I used to ride on are now lined with tons of little shops, mini tin-sheet roofing "factories"as so on. There's no doubt that people are better off than ten years ago. No one can deny that.
living conditions have improved both in the cities and countryside. However, the question about who constitutes middle-class is quite difficult to answer. Saying between $2-$100 is laughable as $100/day is an extremely high salary and $2 is extreme poverty.

In the city, I'd say middle-class would mean a household income of around $500-800/month. They likely own their own place, have two or more motorbikes, or a simple car and a motorbike.

In the countryside it's more difficult to gauge because different regions and villages can vary drastically in average income. Many have a small business with small margins that keeps them occupied. I'd say something like a household income of $150-350/month would be "middle-class". One thing to note is that the bigger towns have boomed (provincial capitals and secondary towns). Merchants there are sometimes quite rich and can easily afford to send their kids to school in the capital. Also, it's difficult to gauge the income of farmers when they only word a few months out of the year. Opportunities do arise for the off-season: work in salt fields, factories and so on.

BKL wrote, "In the countryside it's more difficult to gauge because different regions and villages can vary drastically in average income."

I definitely agree with that. I have no idea how representative my village is; it's simply the one I have come to know intimately so it's the one I write about.

". Place sI used to go to had no electricity then eventually got it from 6pm-9pm, then eventually round the clock"

Yeah, now they have Cambodian TV and karaoke. Not progress for me. No cable because there are no land lines and no one wants to buy a satellite dish. From my point of view the introduction of solar power albeit small scale like mine is far more important.

If anyone here lives in the SNVL area ( ) you should travel to Otres on the beach road. If you look on the left just past the sanitation works, you will see a shack that repairs moto tyres (tires). Just opposite that family has a house just down a track. Go and have a look at it. It is so riddled with worm all over it's ammazing it's still standing. Well, that was 2 years ago, so maybe it isn't.
Not sure what the story is there, but they really need a new place before the kids get crushed by falling timbers.

Interesting stuff about how the houses used to be built from better wood. It was a Cambodian architect that told me about how long those wooden houses last - If they don't burn down. I used cookie (?) for my posts, resting on zinc pads on concrete.

Latest data I can find online is from Oct 2014 from an article on Khmer time:
The World Bank then define a middle class by daily consumption expenditure of between $2.60 and $5.10 based on a per capita income of $950. and of total population, 20% fell in that category.

I recalled gone through a recent article in which the World Bank define a middle class by daily consumption expenditure of over $4.
Since from 2014, things have changed a lot and GNI has increased to $1070, I would give a rough estimate of the number of middle to between 25%-30%.

There may be a clearer number soon. The Ministry of Land Management, Urban Planning and Construction has planed to do a study on middle income group in order to derive a policy. http://www.phnompenhpost.com/post-prope ... ddle-class

looks like you were spot on Mr T

“People who earn more than $10 a day are considered to be the middle-class.”

According to the definition set forth by The World Bank, a person with a gross income of $1,026 to $4,035 is considered to be within the lower-middle-income bracket while those with an annual salary of $4,036 to $12,475 are middle-income.

Truth be told, most Khmer I know that are "middle class" have their own business and don't do any kind of reporting to a bank or tax collector, so I don't see how there are any accurate stats kept on Khmer's "average" earnings.

AE86 wrote: ↑Fri May 05, 2017 9:59 pm Truth be told, most Khmer I know that are "middle class" have their own business and don't do any kind of reporting to a bank or tax collector, so I don't see how there are any accurate stats kept on Khmer's "average" earnings.

Agreed,, so what are your estimates?